Can we please delay Savage?

[BluexBird]

Here's what I don't get - a new raid gets launched Tuesday, but you and/or your party isn't able to take part in it. The rest of the game, however, can do so.

Why does it matter if everyone else is able to raid? Why do people care if others are able to make time to raid?

Like... I would have loved to just grind learning parties until I climbed all the way to beating E8S. The reality? I only beat E7S yesterday, 2 days before the third week. And I'm OK with that.

I just don't see why this is a problem. Patches last for months on end. If you don't have time to raid now, you'll have time to do it eventually. The rest of the playerbase shouldn't have to wait on you, and there should be no reason why you should expect them to.

[Lastelli]

The "stuff" that keeps being brought up as what needs to be sorted clocks in at roughly 10 minutes of time, maybe 15 to 20 if you read slowly.

That's not really accurate. sHC groups that aim for a first week clear need to:

1) clear the normal mode raid, which takes around 1 hour if you chose to skip all cutscenes;
2) need a few hours to gather/buy things to craft the new gear and meld it (the first pieces of gear appear on the MB a couple of hours after the maintenance is over). This doesn't apply to more HC groups since they usually have their army of crafters and gatherers that do the work for them while they clear the first two turns with the previous BiS;
3) clear and farm the new ex primal for weapons. This takes 1-2 hours. These weapons are pretty much required for a week 1 clear unless your party is god-tier and can get away with crafted pentamelded weapons.

So you see, at the very least it takes several hours of preparations. For sHC groups, this is very vexing, especially if some party members can't take days off work and just want to follow a normal evening raid schedule.

Now, this wouldn't be nearly as bad if at least points 1 and 3 were removed, which is exactly what happens for the first savage tier. Let crafted gear come with savage, but at least let us enjoy the MSQ and the NM raid story instead of forcing us to skip all text if we want to play at a semi-competitive level.

[Bonbori]

Please please delay the next tier >.<

Releasing Savage in the same week as everything else is tantamount to aggravated assault on crafters and gatherers. I want all the life I lost to all-nighters back ._.

IT'S STRESSFUL >.<

[Lambdafish]

I'm all for a delay, but you have to realize there would be a second maintenance to add savage and the new crafts, and the accompanying EX trial might also get delayed, as releasing it before the crafted weapons would hurt the market.

Wanting to access the content earlier and avoid an additional maintenance are perfectly valid reasons to oppose a delay, by the way.

Let me refute the clutching at straws argument of preventing additional maintenance. In 5.1, SE performed an emergency patch that fixed problems with Ishgardian restoration. For the first time, this patch did not require maintenance or the servers being shut down, SE flipped a switch and the already patched precautionary changes were activated. There is no reason why they couldn't implement savage as part of the initial maintenance, and then flip the switch one week later with no maintenance required. It's a simple case of enabling the savage quest.

Source if you don't remember: https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...750.1582028020

The one downside to this is that the savage content will be datamineable a week before it is released, but the only things that could possibly be learned from that are what the savage exclusive final fight form is and data on the loot, hardly anything to worry about.

[Barraind]

That's not really accurate. sHC groups that aim for a first week clear need to:

1) clear the normal mode raid, which takes around 1 hour if you chose to skip all cutscenes;
2) need a few hours to gather/buy things to craft the new gear and meld it (the first pieces of gear appear on the MB a couple of hours after the maintenance is over). This doesn't apply to more HC groups since they usually have their army of crafters and gatherers that do the work for them while they clear the first two turns with the previous BiS;
3) clear and farm the new ex primal for weapons. This takes 1-2 hours. These weapons are pretty much required for a week 1 clear unless your party is god-tier and can get away with crafted pentamelded weapons.

So you see, at the very least it takes several hours of preparations. For sHC groups, this is very vexing, especially if some party members can't take days off work and just want to follow a normal evening raid schedule.

Now, this wouldn't be nearly as bad if at least points 1 and 3 were removed, which is exactly what happens for the first savage tier. Let crafted gear come with savage, but at least let us enjoy the MSQ and the NM raid story instead of forcing us to skip all text if we want to play at a semi-competitive level.

If they're holding back savage, theres an incredibly good chance they're also holding back the EX trial, new tomestones and crafted gear (You wont have the new tomestones, so the old tomestones wont be phased out, so the new tomestone mats wont be available), for the sole purpose of keeping the ilvl of available gear constant.

Which means literally the ONLY thing you're getting from the delay is the length of the cutscenes, which is about 10 minutes, on an event that ONLY impacts people who are racing to do this content the second the servers are up.

It has 0 impact on anyone who is not, as they already have the time post reset to do those things.

Its an awful argument to say that because one subset of one subset of one subset of players (the people who care about cutscenes in statics who want to race for world first clears) feel like they cannot do every bit of content simultaneously the second the content is available, we should let them save their 10 minutes by delaying content that is ready to be released by more than, and I'm being generous with this, a couple hours (and I'm mostly only saying a couple hours because it means I dont have to get up at 4 or 5 am my time to gather and craft things for the one day a patch cycle my crafting profits require me being on a timer).

As if 'It's your problem' is a compelling reason.

"Its a problem of a small minority of a small minority of a small minority so it doesnt really warrant significant consideration" is a strong argument when the rest of the playerbase are adversely affected by it, yes.

[ErryK]

"I want savage to be delayed because I dont want to feel pressured to do the thing I want to do over other things I want to do" or "I want savage to be delayed because I dont want to have to get all the day 1 stuff done on day 1" arent exactly compelling reasons.

As if 'It's your problem' is a compelling reason.

[Lastelli]

If they're holding back savage, theres an incredibly good chance they're also holding back the EX trial, new tomestones and crafted gear (You wont have the new tomestones, so the old tomestones wont be phased out, so the new tomestone mats wont be available), for the sole purpose of keeping the ilvl of available gear constant.

You're overcomplicating things. They didn't hold back the ex trials in 5.0, so why would they hold back the new ex primal? And why would they hold back the new tomestones exactly? It's way easier to make the dps check slightly harder to account for the potentially higher ilvl of the party. They can go several ways, the important thing is that they release content in a way that lets raiders jump into savage content without placing some nonsensical gates before them...just like the first savage tiers and the ultimate raids.

[BluexBird]

Guys, please. Just because the content is out there and other people are doing it, doesn't mean you're forced to also put the same amount of time and effort as they are. This is ridiculously childish.

If you want to be world first, but can't take time off work or life, then perhaps you should be reconsidering if you should even be going for world first in the first place...

[Lambdafish]

Guys, please. Just because the content is out there and other people are doing it, doesn't mean you're forced to also put the same amount of time and effort as they are. This is ridiculously childish.

If you want to be world first, but can't take time off work or life, then perhaps you should be reconsidering if you should even be going for world first in the first place...

No offence, but why is it any of your business what people want to do? Multiple valid reasons have been given as to why this change benefits the game, and so far there have been no valid reasons as to why it harms the game other than "OMG you don't have to do savage immediately", which you are further perpetuating.

Let me give you a hypothetical scenario that used to be a reality for me. I get home at 6pm everyday from work and would raid at 8pm on a Tuesday. What that means is that in order for my raid group to do savage, I would need to get home, immediately log onto the game, rush through normal mode before 8pm, to then do a raid nights worth of savage. If I don't then 7 other people miss out on a raid day for the week, you tell me if I have a choice in that scenario. No, we aren't trying for world first, but that doesn't make the gating any less annoying.

Before you say "Just don't raid on that Tuesday", let me remind you that you are dictating that my static miss a raid day on principle, not because of any tangible reason.

[Barraind]

And why would they hold back the new tomestones exactly?

Because new tomestones are released with savage.

They dont release the capped tomestone in the .0 patches at launch or with normal raids, they get released with savage in the .05 patch, because they keep the available ilvl constant.

Similarly with EX weapons, the weapons that fit with the ilvl progression for Savage were from Hades. Titania weapons are a full 10 ilvl lower than normal eden weapons. EX trials released alongside a savage release drop weapons that are higher ilvl than the crafted pieces, and would thus be delayed.

o far there have been no valid reasons as to why it harms the game

It needlessly delays content for everyone who is capable of time management, everyone who doesnt care about pushing their raid time back or forward TEN MINUTES one day every 6 months, and everyone who doesnt care about taking 10 minutes out of their day to watch cutscenes. It also negatively impacts gatherers and crafters, players who dont care about raiding savage minute 1, those who want to experience content without further delays, and those who are more interested in new tomestones than new savage raids.

The EX weapons that were relevant for Eden't Gate prog were Titania's ilvl 450 weapons.

Yes, items with a purposefully LOWER ilvl than every other EX tier released.

Titania dropped weapons that were on par with other weapon options. EVERY OTHER EX drops HIGHER ilvl weapons than are otherwise available at the time (excepting savage drops).

Your answer amounts to nothing more than "it was that way before so it has to stay that way"

When things dont change for 4 - 6 years and dev response is "We thought about it but we arent going to change it" it tends to be a thing thats not going to change.

It is the way it is because they very specifically and deliberately release things at the times they do with Ilvl taken into account. They arent going to shift half of it back any number of days, they're going to shift ALL of it back that long.