Can we please delay Savage?

[Lastelli]

Because new tomestones are released with savage.

They dont release the capped tomestone in the .0 patches at launch or with normal raids, they get released with savage in the .05 patch, because they keep the available ilvl constant.

Similarly with EX weapons, the weapons that fit with the ilvl progression for Savage were from Hades. Titania weapons are a full 10 ilvl lower than normal eden weapons. EX trials released alongside a savage release drop weapons that are higher ilvl than the crafted pieces, and would thus be delayed.

1) Just because something was a certain way, it doesn't mean it should stay that way. Your answer amounts to nothing more than "it was that way before so it has to stay that way";

2) The EX weapons that were relevant for Eden't Gate prog were Titania's ilvl 450 weapons. Similarly, "prog gear" was ilvl 450 and normal mode raid was released before savage, so raiders farmed it to obtain the best ilvl 450 gear. Hades was released in 5.1, when all decent players that cared about savage already had titan on farm.

[Nariel]

1) Just because something was a certain way, it doesn't mean it should stay that way. Your answer amounts to nothing more than "it was that way before so it has to stay that way";

2) The EX weapons that were relevant for Eden't Gate prog were Titania's ilvl 450 weapons. Hades was released in 5.1, when all decent players that cared about savage already had titan on farm.

Don't fix if it ain't broken

[SaitoHikari]

No offence, but why is it any of your business what people want to do? Multiple valid reasons have been given as to why this change benefits the game, and so far there have been no valid reasons as to why it harms the game other than "OMG you don't have to do savage immediately", which you are further perpetuating.

Let me give you a hypothetical scenario that used to be a reality for me. I get home at 6pm everyday from work and would raid at 8pm on a Tuesday. What that means is that in order for my raid group to do savage, I would need to get home, immediately log onto the game, rush through normal mode before 8pm, to then do a raid nights worth of savage. If I don't then 7 other people miss out on a raid day for the week, you tell me if I have a choice in that scenario. No, we aren't trying for world first, but that doesn't make the gating any less annoying.

Before you say "Just don't raid on that Tuesday", let me remind you that you are dictating that my static miss a raid day on principle, not because of any tangible reason.

Not to mention the whole argument falls apart when it's not really just about one person, but the expectations of 8 people as a whole. Some in a static will want to pace themselves through the story, while others will pressure everyone into skipping everything to run immediately.

That said, I wonder how the people advocating for SE to keep the release schedule the same would react if SE instead decides to scrap normal modes and make Savage the standard once more, like they did back in Coil. It has the benefit of the developers not having to spend development time balancing Normal mode and making gear drops from it. It also benefits crafters because now you HAVE to use crafted gear to fill in the absence of normal raid drops.

By the same line of reasoning being used to argue against delaying Savage 1 week, it's a you problem if you can't get a team together to clear Savage to see the story. You'll get to see the story eventually, either ASAP if you find a good team, or an expansion later when you can unsync it, right?

[Barraind]

By the same line of reasoning being used to argue against delaying Savage 1 week, it's a you problem if you can't get a team together to clear Savage to see the story. You'll get to see the story eventually, either ASAP if you find a good team, or an expansion later when you can unsync it, right?

Dont give anyone any ideas, we'll get people who want to delay each savage floor by a week or two because I CANT BE EXPECTED TO PUT TIME INTO PROGRESSION AND WATCHING A CUTSCENE AFTER ITS TOO HARD AND DEMANDING AND MY STATIC DOESNT GIVE A CRAP ABOUT DOING IT SO I FEEL PRESSURED TO SKIP WATCHING IT OMG and at that point people who just want to do content because theyre already paring down and holding back content will start throwing their shoes and itll be a mess.

Let me give you a hypothetical scenario that used to be a reality for me.

I'm going to ask you a question I asked every guild in WoW that had issues with fighting server problems on tuesdays (because everyone was raiding on Tuesdays) and wasnt racing for firsts:

Why do you raid on Tuesdays? Or, specifically, why do you raid on a patch day?

We arent using a lockout system that locks you out of bosses for X hours. Killing something 2 minutes before reset on monday night is the exact same thing, lockout wise, as killing it on tuesday 3 seconds after a reset.

It actually runs contrary to long-term success to raid on a tuesday in any game that has a weekly lockout and resets on Tuesdays if theres another week day you arent raiding and could be, because it is more likely than not that Tuesday is going to be the day of the week that has the most stability issues. Hell, my 10man moved our 10man nights from post raid on Tuesday to post-raid on Wednesday and managed to have world 2nd and 3rd on a number of them because Tuesday was a stupid day to try and raid on any of the older NA servers, and you literally couldnt finish achievement raids on those days because zone crashes counted as a death for undying/immortal clears.

Its something almost nobody in 14 seems to pick up on.


Its also a you thing if your issue is "I'm in a raid group that if I cant make it out of the office exactly on time, I'm super behind". It sucks to be there. I've been there. But the everyone else who isnt you isnt you. If raiding on one specific Tuesday once a year (two times in every two year window) is such a huge problem, why havent you taken steps to alter how you do things that one day a year?


That is, in a nutshell, the issue.

Why should things be delayed for everyone else a full week or more because a miniscule amount of people feel rushed to complete one section of content on ONE DAY a year?


Its the equivalent of asking for gardening timers to not count down on American Thanksgiving Day on JP servers.

[Sebazy]

Dont give anyone any ideas, we'll get people who want to delay each savage floor by a week or two because I CANT BE EXPECTED TO PUT TIME INTO PROGRESSION AND WATCHING A CUTSCENE AFTER ITS TOO HARD AND DEMANDING AND MY STATIC DOESNT GIVE A CRAP ABOUT DOING IT SO I FEEL PRESSURED TO SKIP WATCHING IT OMG and at that point people who just want to do content because theyre already paring down and holding back content will start throwing their shoes and itll be a mess.

WHY NOT DELAY IT THREE WEEKS? FOUR? Oh wait, because that would be both pointless and irrelevant to this discussion much like the delaying EX angle. Calm down on the hyperbole a little bit please? You're turning into another 'ef raiders because ef raiders' with fluff like that =(

Again, I'm firmly of the opinion that delaying Savage by a mere day would be the best all round solution that doesn't step on too many toes or start making people come up with all kinds of crazy reasons that it can't happen. What's your view on that?

[Penthea]

Still your own choice. If a new game comes out and the most important thing for you is to finish it as fast as possible, it's absurd to complain afterwards that you had to skip through texts and cutscenes for reaching your goal.

There are people in this thread with a very impressive raiding history who want savage to be delayed. It's clear that there are hardcore players who consider having to rush or skip things to be a problem.

One of the best things about FFXIV is you can do everything on one character, and doing one thing doesn't lock you out of doing something else. It's one of the game's main selling points. Well for competitive savage raiding that isn't the case due to the aforementioned need to rush or skip things to meet the demands of that raiding environment.

I don't understand why some people are so against the idea of allowing competitive raiders have just as much time to enjoy new story or ex trials as much as the rest of us. The way some talk it almost looks as if they think those players somehow deserve to have a less meaningful experience in casual content. It's weird.

[Awha]

No offence, but why is it any of your business what people want to do? Multiple valid reasons have been given as to why this change benefits the game, and so far there have been no valid reasons as to why it harms the game other than "OMG you don't have to do savage immediately", which you are further perpetuating.

Let me give you a hypothetical scenario that used to be a reality for me. I get home at 6pm everyday from work and would raid at 8pm on a Tuesday. What that means is that in order for my raid group to do savage, I would need to get home, immediately log onto the game, rush through normal mode before 8pm, to then do a raid nights worth of savage. If I don't then 7 other people miss out on a raid day for the week, you tell me if I have a choice in that scenario. No, we aren't trying for world first, but that doesn't make the gating any less annoying.

Before you say "Just don't raid on that Tuesday", let me remind you that you are dictating that my static miss a raid day on principle, not because of any tangible reason.

I am in favor of a delay though a much shorter one then a week, I personally feel 1 day is more then enough that aside. Regarding your hypothetical since I assume it takes place with the current system "Just don't raid on that Tuesday" is a tangible reason. This entire thread is based off personal prefance, and it is highly unlikey many will change anyone minds regarding it.

Dont give anyone any ideas, we'll get people who want to delay each savage floor by a week or two because I CANT BE EXPECTED TO PUT TIME INTO PROGRESSION AND WATCHING A CUTSCENE AFTER ITS TOO HARD AND DEMANDING AND MY STATIC DOESNT GIVE A CRAP ABOUT DOING IT SO I FEEL PRESSURED TO SKIP WATCHING IT OMG and at that point people who just want to do content because theyre already paring down and holding back content will start throwing their shoes and itll be a mess.




I'm going to ask you a question I asked every guild in WoW that had issues with fighting server problems on tuesdays (because everyone was raiding on Tuesdays) and wasnt racing for firsts:

Why do you raid on Tuesdays? Or, specifically, why do you raid on a patch day?

We arent using a lockout system that locks you out of bosses for X hours. Killing something 2 minutes before reset on monday night is the exact same thing, lockout wise, as killing it on tuesday 3 seconds after a reset.

It actually runs contrary to long-term success to raid on a tuesday in any game that has a weekly lockout and resets on Tuesdays if theres another week day you arent raiding and could be, because it is more likely than not that Tuesday is going to be the day of the week that has the most stability issues. Hell, my 10man moved our 10man nights from post raid on Tuesday to post-raid on Wednesday and managed to have world 2nd and 3rd on a number of them because Tuesday was a stupid day to try and raid on any of the older NA servers, and you literally couldnt finish achievement raids on those days because zone crashes counted as a death for undying/immortal clears.

Its something almost nobody in 14 seems to pick up on.


Its also a you thing if your issue is "I'm in a raid group that if I cant make it out of the office exactly on time, I'm super behind". It sucks to be there. I've been there. But the everyone else who isnt you isnt you. If raiding on one specific Tuesday once a year (two times in every two year window) is such a huge problem, why havent you taken steps to alter how you do things that one day a year?


That is, in a nutshell, the issue.

Why should things be delayed for everyone else a full week or more because a miniscule amount of people feel rushed to complete one section of content on ONE DAY a year?


Its the equivalent of asking for gardening timers to not count down on American Thanksgiving Day on JP servers.

Slippery slopes are disingenuous, but I do get your point but even they ever did delay the content by one hour (which I would like) or a week it would not mean the devs would listen to every request the comminity made just because they listened to this one,

[Avyiur]

The problem with delaying savage by a day as opposed to a week is then you run into a 6 day lockout vs a 7 day lock out (because SE sure as heck is not going to change the reset timers and weekly lockout timers). This will also upset hardcore raiders because having a full 7 days is essential to week 1 progression. I do wish that FFXIV does take a page from WoW's book in this regard where they have normal/heroic release for patch day and then mythic a week later. I don't think it would be so much of an issue to also delay tomes for a week (with the previous tome gear being unlocked it could be used as a catch up week) while also getting a piece or two from normal before going into Savage.


With people going in with more gear from Normal, they could even tune up the difficulty on Savage once it is released.

[Awha]

The problem with delaying savage by a day as opposed to a week is then you run into a 6 day lockout vs a 7 day lock out (because SE sure as heck is not going to change the reset timers and weekly lockout timers). This will also upset hardcore raiders because having a full 7 days is essential to week 1 progression. I do wish that FFXIV does take a page from WoW's book in this regard where they have normal/heroic release for patch day and then mythic a week later. I don't think it would be so much of an issue to also delay tomes for a week (with the previous tome gear being unlocked it could be used as a catch up week) while also getting a piece or two from normal before going into Savage.


With people going in with more gear from Normal, they could even tune up the difficulty on Savage once it is released.

True, and I did bring that up with my friends since we have this discussion often, and from what I could tell ither aspect would cause people to be unhappy, and just wondering on averge how many week one progression group use the full 7 days to get the kill? I can only go based off my friends static (not a hardcore progression raider) they said they have yet to need to the full seven days, and they are hardcore players that brought up the 24 hour delay, since they could stomach that over having to wait one week to take part in the content they desire, and the idea of having to run normal more then needed before they can get into savage appeared to annoy them greatly.

[BluexBird]

No offence, but why is it any of your business what people want to do? Multiple valid reasons have been given as to why this change benefits the game, and so far there have been no valid reasons as to why it harms the game other than "OMG you don't have to do savage immediately", which you are further perpetuating.

Let me give you a hypothetical scenario that used to be a reality for me. I get home at 6pm everyday from work and would raid at 8pm on a Tuesday. What that means is that in order for my raid group to do savage, I would need to get home, immediately log onto the game, rush through normal mode before 8pm, to then do a raid nights worth of savage. If I don't then 7 other people miss out on a raid day for the week, you tell me if I have a choice in that scenario. No, we aren't trying for world first, but that doesn't make the gating any less annoying.

Before you say "Just don't raid on that Tuesday", let me remind you that you are dictating that my static miss a raid day on principle, not because of any tangible reason.

Your lack of self-awareness is incredible. The selfishness and entitlement is off the charts with this. I can't believe I have to explain this to you.

I wasn't even gonna tell you not to raid on that Tuesday. I'm gonna tell you to either move your raid schedule, or find a new raid group.

Now, to answer your question - "why is it any of my business what people want to do?" But actually, no - I won't even bother answering. I'm just going to point out the irony here - you and a couple of people in this thread, are trying to implement a change that would make A HUGE PORTION OF THE PLAYERBASE who likes to raid and who WANT to raid, to have to wait an extra few weeks before they start. All because some people have busy schedules and can't stand the idea of having to start their raiding a few weeks later.

Seriously, grow up. The world doesn't revolve around you.