5.0 WAR is a disappointment

[Lucy_Pyre]

Frankly, leave IR and IC completely alone. They're fine in their current iteration. The only issues I personally have with them are some minor potency ones, as I think WAR should be doing a little bit more DPS than what it does on live. While I'm no math expert and I certainly haven't put in any significant time to see just how severe of an increase something like this would be, I can't imagine it would be too breaking of a change to add, like, 30 potency to IC and 20 or so to FC. 590 and 920 are already weird potency numbers as is.

[Khimer]

Frankly, leave IR and IC completely alone. They're fine in their current iteration.

No, they are not fine, every warrior that knows what they're doing will tell you that guaranteed DCrit is awful. Not only it screws with crit scaling, but also with melding for omnitanks. On top of that most raid buffs are completely useless for warrior and that's just stupid. 4.2 fixed a lot of problems for WAR but it was done in a really bad way. They should just change IR to dmg buff, or make IR only crit and bring back 60s berserk, while also giving warrior minor potency buffs. Like there's no reason for FC to not be 600 pot like Bloodspiller, or its combo finishers 400 pot. That way le new war mains™ can have their unga bunga spam™ and warrior won't be AS awful.

[Lucy_Pyre]

No, they are not fine, every warrior that knows what they're doing will tell you that guaranteed DCrit is awful. Not only it screws with crit scaling, but also with melding for omnitanks. On top of that most raid buffs are completely useless for warrior and that's just stupid. 4.2 fixed a lot of problems for WAR but it was done in a really bad way. They should just change IR to dmg buff, or make IR only crit and bring back 60s berserk, while also giving warrior minor potency buffs. Like there's no reason for FC to not be 600 pot like Bloodspiller, or its combo finishers 400 pot. That way le new war mains™ can have their unga bunga spam™ and warrior won't be AS awful.

Yeah, I think I can confidently say that I "know what I'm doing" more than the overwhelming vast majority of Warrior players out there, and I think that IR and IC are completely fine as is. Could some things potentially be tweaked to be better? Absolutely so. But at the end of the day the only real major "issue" that WAR currently has is just a slightly lower than desired DPS profile, something that could very easily be fixed with minor potency tweaks. Barring that the job doesn't really need anything else.

[BarretOblivion]

Yeah, I think I can confidently say that I "know what I'm doing" more than the overwhelming vast majority of Warrior players out there, and I think that IR and IC are completely fine as is. Could some things potentially be tweaked to be better? Absolutely so. But at the end of the day the only real major "issue" that WAR currently has is just a slightly lower than desired DPS profile, something that could very easily be fixed with minor potency tweaks. Barring that the job doesn't really need anything else.

WAR needs skills, it needs changes. Potency will get a few people to jump on to play it due to it being "meta" but look at the tank numbers just in raiding. GNB, PLD, and DRK are fairly close in population of savage clears. WAR is down at the bottem, by a VAST amount, not even close to any of the other tanks and its damage is higher than DRK not considering party buffs. Its the same arguement people tried to make for DRKs in SB. DRKs in SB had a multiple issues, but thier damage was higher than PLD. So if DPS is truely the sole thing people care about, why wasn't DRK played more than PLDs?

<insert crickets>
Because DRK was clunky still. WAR was only up top due to yes, its DPS was top but also it had the best self mitigation cools and had an important part of what? Dropping Tank Stance and creating a high buffer of hate at the start of the fight with 0 DPS loss unlike the other tank options AND Holmgang was 180 secs back then making many fights trival due to its cooldown.
There were MULTIPLE reasons why WAR was the go to tank in SB, not just its damage, it had more strengths than that.

Now? Holmgang is now 240 secs which has led to it being far less valued than any other tank due to the new TB timings (exception to Leviathan but that requires a DRK/WAR comp to fully cheese else its pointless to value Holmgang more than any other TB in that fight). Tank dancing is not a thing anymore and there is no care about hate management for tanks. So now what is WAR's strength? It has self healing... with the worst OT skill in the game and has good personal mitigation... buuuut all of the fights require both tanks active mitigation meaning that's a pointless strength since you most of the time will use NF over Raw to self heal cause you don't need the extra mitigation.
IR? Well DRK has that now and I don't think I need to point out how Titan can completely F you over during IR multiple times in that fight.

THAT is why WAR isn't played anymore on top of one of the most complained about Tanks kit wise with again 0 changes in ShB that changed/evolved how the job functions. Not only that but DRK which legit got a skill from WAR one of their two BIGGEST COMPLAINTS IS DELIRUM! (Other complaint is Living Dead debuff).

[Lucy_Pyre]

-snipped out for post length reasons-

There's a very clear and obvious reason why WAR is significantly less popular than the other tanks, that being that it is more or less obsolete in its current state. It does more or less equal DPS to DRK while having mostly comparable mitigation to GNB. Yet each of the other tanks offers something that WAR doesn't; PLD having more DPS and significantly more utility, DRK being the reigning king of mitigation, and GNB bringing the highest raw DPS. If WAR's DPS was more closely tied to GNB's (but still slightly behind) then it would be fine, imo. GNB would still have a little more DPS while WAR would be close behind and trade a bit of raw mitigation out for healing.

As for Titan screwing you out of IR multiple times during the fight, I don't know what to tell you other than that you're timing your IR incorrectly. It's possible for him to screw with IR exactly one single time during the fight, and that's if he does car second instead of gauntlets in phase 1 since most of the time that happens I end up having to manually click off IR after 3 or 4 Fell Cleave's so as to not get screwed over by the knockback immunity on the move. Other than that it all lines up perfectly fine, so if you're having multiple IR issues on Titan then I'm sorry to say but you're doing something wrong.

Edit: WAR isn't below the other tanks by a "vast" margin in savage clears. It's the lowest, for sure. However there are currently 18,822 logged kills for Paladin, 15,977 for Dark Knight, 13,091 for Gunbreaker, and 10.041 for Warrior across the whole savage tier. No one will argue that Gunbreaker is unpopular, and the difference between them is almost exactly 3,000 clears, in a question of tens of thousands. A difference to be sure, but not large enough to be considered a "vast" margin. The only place there is a significant margin is in Alexander ultimate, and in that case there are almost 4x as many clears for both Dark Knight AND Paladin as there are for Gunbreaker and Warrior.

[BarretOblivion]

snip

WAR has better mitigation than DRK generaly due to raw being a 15% free mitigation compared to TBN which has a cost and Dark Mind is only taken into account during magical fights.
WAR does deal more damage than DRK without any party buffs, this is a known fact and DRK only jumps above WAR when there is Battle Litany/Battle Voice because WAR gets no benifit from those two buffs.

Did you forget 2nd uplift? If you are a WAR that is placed on the S team you can get seriously cucked with being forced to delay your IR due to not being able to hit the boss. How do I know? I played it on DRK and have been cucked on Delirum (same cooldown). "Well make sure the WAR is on the N team". Lets be real, in PUG groups there is no priority on Tank locations and generally speaking unless you have a PLD who is willing to go in the back, you are cucking one tank over not being on the N team.

Finally, yes 3k behind the 2nd lowest clear rate tank is VAST because whats the percentage of that? Roughly 77% rounded up. Look at it between the first and 2nd that percentage increases. That's a fairly significant difference between all the other of tanks.
Now Alex Ult is a case where of course you are going to bring in a DRK over a WAR or even GNB, due to 2 reasons.

1) Dark Mind is useful in there.
2)Living Liquid and BJ/CC phases DRK can pad the crap out of their numbers due to having the best AoE padding of all the tanks. It gains blood and it gains MP faster with AoE rotation meaning more Bloodspillers and more Flood/Edge.

[Lucy_Pyre]

WAR has better mitigation than DRK generaly due to raw being a 15% free mitigation compared to TBN which has a cost and Dark Mind is only taken into account during magical fights.
WAR does deal more damage than DRK without any party buffs, this is a known fact and DRK only jumps above WAR when there is Battle Litany/Battle Voice because WAR gets no benifit from those two buffs.

Did you forget 2nd uplift? If you are a WAR that is placed on the S team you can get seriously cucked with being forced to delay your IR due to not being able to hit the boss. How do I know? I played it on DRK and have been cucked on Delirum (same cooldown). "Well make sure the WAR is on the N team". Lets be real, in PUG groups there is no priority on Tank locations and generally speaking unless you have a PLD who is willing to go in the back, you are cucking one tank over not being on the N team.

Finally, yes 3k behind the 2nd lowest clear rate tank is VAST because whats the percentage of that? Roughly 77% rounded up. Look at it between the first and 2nd that percentage increases. That's a fairly significant difference between all the other of tanks.
Now Alex Ult is a case where of course you are going to bring in a DRK over a WAR or even GNB, due to 2 reasons.

1) Dark Mind is useful in there.
2)Living Liquid and BJ/CC phases DRK can pad the crap out of their numbers due to having the best AoE padding of all the tanks. It gains blood and it gains MP faster with AoE rotation meaning more Bloodspillers and more Flood/Edge.

Dark Mind is useful in the current savage tier as well. Tank lasers and buster preys are magical, Shadowflame is magical, pretty sure Black Smokers mini busters are magical, and the non-stack buster of Dual Earthen Fists is magical. All are busters that you mitigate, rather than invuln. Giving Dark Mind clear uses in every fight. Also, Delirum and Inner Release have the same cooldown but the points that they get used in the rotation is different. Dark Knight typically uses their first Delirium after the 5th GCD of the fight whereas Warrior uses the first Inner Release after the fourth GCD. This is a slight difference, yes, but as someone who has primarily played WAR in the current savage tier and has had very little IR issues in Titan, it very obviously make a difference. So as I said previously, the only time that IR is reliably cucked in Titan is getting car 2nd in phase 1. Otherwise it all lines up just fine.

Edit: Anyone trying to claim that any tank has better mitigation than DRK gets a 'lol' from me. TBN is so hilariously strong that you can't even try to make that claim.

[Khimer]

Yeah, I think I can confidently say that I "know what I'm doing" more than the overwhelming vast majority of Warrior players out there, and I think that IR and IC are completely fine as is. Could some things potentially be tweaked to be better? Absolutely so. But at the end of the day the only real major "issue" that WAR currently has is just a slightly lower than desired DPS profile, something that could very easily be fixed with minor potency tweaks. Barring that the job doesn't really need anything else.

I JUST said what's wrong with IR and IC in the post you even quoted and yet you still claim that its completely fine. Also learning the rotation doesn't mean you know the job and what's good for it. Ever heard of Balance discord? You should check it out some time and ask warriors and mentors there how they feel about current iteration. I'm pretty sure they know way more than some randoms on forums.

[Khimer]

I feel like people that defend current warrior design either only care about about their parses, and they love that you can just get orange by just pressing 1 button without even having to think OR people that are just "lul fell cleave spam amirite guys, i love big flashy numbers, unga bunga amirite guys". But people who actually enjoyed warrior for what it was before hated 4.2 patch and everything that came after.

[Lucy_Pyre]

I JUST said what's wrong with IR and IC in the post you even quoted and yet you still claim that its completely fine. Also learning the rotation doesn't mean you know the job and what's good for it. Ever heard of Balance discord? You should check it out some time and ask warriors and mentors there how they feel about current iteration. I'm pretty sure they know way more than some randoms on forums.

I've been in Balance plenty, and people being a regular in that server doesn't make them good or know what they're talking about. There's a certain people for each job there that know what they're talking about, sure. But to say that the majority of them do is simply a fallacy. As with anywhere the overwhelming majority are going to be average at the very best, unless it's an exclusive community for those who have proven themselves to be skilled. Something that Balance clearly is not, as it's a public tool/asset.