Thread: 5.0 WAR is a disappointment

Originally Posted by Terkhev

Personally I absolutely don't miss early SB warrior. Having to align every single GCD was a major pain. IR change made warrior feel how I always felt "fighter" classes should be - intuitive and straightforward. Sure, dmg outside of burst is too low and I wouldn't mind another combo (plz give back BB animation!), but I'd really prefer WAR to stay simple and relaxing job that it is now - after all there are more busy ones, so let people who like this kind of playstyle have one "stupid" class.

This guy gets it.

Originally Posted by Hierro

This guy gets it.

SB 4.0 war was definitely not fun. But ShB is not fun either. I thought War was pretty complete by the end of SB, and it should have just stayed that way. NF, IC/CS/New Infuriate Mechanic, is terrible and I would much rather get old Inner Beast/Steel Cyclone back. If SE wanted war to have more burst outside IR window, they should have buffed Upheaval, instead of adding IC. And I hate the idea of not using the most powerful attack inside the IR window. Thematically it feels off to me. And NF having a party target requirement when SB war could just pop into tank stance any time for IB or Steel Cyclone heals is really a sucky change.

Originally Posted by Terkhev

Personally I absolutely don't miss early SB warrior. Having to align every single GCD was a major pain. IR change made warrior feel how I always felt "fighter" classes should be - intuitive and straightforward. Sure, dmg outside of burst is too low and I wouldn't mind another combo (plz give back BB animation!), but I'd really prefer WAR to stay simple and relaxing job that it is now - after all there are more busy ones, so let people who like this kind of playstyle have one "stupid" class.

People who like this "stupid" class playstyle should just play other jobs, after all there are many easy ones, WAR was supposed to be complex for its high dps(when it used to be high), so let people who enjoy complex tanks have its class back. That 4.2 patch was a major hit in enjoyability for actual warrior mains, trust me, because of that they all play gnb now and just silently miss old WAR. Now i just accepted that SE will never bring old warrior back, with that in mind the only thing they can do to fix it is: 1. Increase potency just by a little bit. 2. Change IR to just damage buff so we can have decent melds and decent crit scaling, and also benefit from raid buffs. 3. Returning crit per gauge would make it a little more interesting on the optimization side of the job.

Originally Posted by NyneSwordz

SB 4.0 war was definitely not fun. But ShB is not fun either. I thought War was pretty complete by the end of SB, and it should have just stayed that way. NF, IC/CS/New Infuriate Mechanic, is terrible and I would much rather get old Inner Beast/Steel Cyclone back. If SE wanted war to have more burst outside IR window, they should have buffed Upheaval, instead of adding IC. And I hate the idea of not using the most powerful attack inside the IR window. Thematically it feels off to me. And NF having a party target requirement when SB war could just pop into tank stance any time for IB or Steel Cyclone heals is really a sucky change.

How can you honestly say 4.2 WAR was complete? It lacked a way to support off-tanks, and that was addressed with NF. It lacked a way to take advantage of buffs that came up every 1 minute interval, that was addressed with IC. The infuriate mechanic is something that keeps WAR interesting without becoming a burden. I can't recall a situation where I couldn't IR on cooldown because I'd overcap on infuriate's cooldown, because I have the sense to use infuriate when needed!

Buffing upheaval would have the effect of making WAR more punishing to play since it has a natural tendency to drift over time, eventually resulting in falling off your IR window or forgoing a use to remedy the drift. IC has the inherent benefit of being on a charged system. You go onto praise inner beast, but you have to keep in mind that in practice it was seldom used outside of prog, and that even then you're talking about a defensive buff that was tied to a GCD. Neither applies to NF, thankfully!

Originally Posted by Khimer

WAR was supposed to be complex

It was never complex.

Originally Posted by Hierro

It was never complex.

With its big brain gauge management in 4.1 it was pretty much the most complex tank out of all 3, and that was true even in HW, buddy. But you seem like the kind of guy who mained PLD all his life and jumped on the WAR train once it got piss easy to outdps other tanks with just 1 button, or you DID play WAR before that and were just happy to land one FC in berserk window, that's why you never saw it as a complex job. And whether you feel it was easy or not before, it is pretty much undisputed that it was dumbed down by A LOT after 4.2.

Originally Posted by Khimer

With its big brain gauge management in 4.1 it was pretty much the most complex tank out of all 3, and that was true even in HW, buddy. But you seem like the kind of guy who mained PLD all his life and jumped on the WAR train once it got piss easy to outdps other tanks with just 1 button, or you DID play WAR before that and were just happy to land one FC in berserk window, that's why you never saw it as a complex job. And whether you feel it was easy or not before, it is pretty much undisputed that it was dumbed down by A LOT after 4.2.

Buddy, there was nothing special about triple fell cleaving in HW. It wasn't complex by a long shot. In 4.1, the gauge management wasn't "big brain," it was needlessly convoluted, and the pay off wasn't anything to write home about when it barely outdps'd PLD. You say it was complex when it was doing its highest DPS, but in fact it had much higher relative DPS in the raid tiers before and after.

But hey, keep deluding yourself into thinking WAR was this MLG high skill ceiling job. It'll entertain me longer.

Originally Posted by Hierro

How can you honestly say 4.2 WAR was complete? It lacked a way to support off-tanks, and that was addressed with NF. It lacked a way to take advantage of buffs that came up every 1 minute interval, that was addressed with IC. The infuriate mechanic is something that keeps WAR interesting without becoming a burden. I can't recall a situation where I couldn't IR on cooldown because I'd overcap on infuriate's cooldown, because I have the sense to use infuriate when needed!

Buffing upheaval would have the effect of making WAR more punishing to play since it has a natural tendency to drift over time, eventually resulting in falling off your IR window or forgoing a use to remedy the drift. IC has the inherent benefit of being on a charged system. You go onto praise inner beast, but you have to keep in mind that in practice it was seldom used outside of prog, and that even then you're talking about a defensive buff that was tied to a GCD. Neither applies to NF, thankfully!






It was never complex.

Does anyone one want to point out no WAR in thier right mind is going to be waiting a whole minute to IC when there is a passive that reduces its cooldown by 5 secs for every FC or IC you do? No? Or the fact that WAR is also the one tank that gets the least out of party buffs?

Originally Posted by Hierro

How can you honestly say 4.2 WAR was complete? It lacked a way to support off-tanks, and that was addressed with NF. It lacked a way to take advantage of buffs that came up every 1 minute interval, that was addressed with IC. The infuriate mechanic is something that keeps WAR interesting without becoming a burden. I can't recall a situation where I couldn't IR on cooldown because I'd overcap on infuriate's cooldown, because I have the sense to use infuriate when needed!

Buffing upheaval would have the effect of making WAR more punishing to play since it has a natural tendency to drift over time, eventually resulting in falling off your IR window or forgoing a use to remedy the drift. IC has the inherent benefit of being on a charged system. You go onto praise inner beast, but you have to keep in mind that in practice it was seldom used outside of prog, and that even then you're talking about a defensive buff that was tied to a GCD. Neither applies to NF, thankfully!






It was never complex.

No. IC does not fix anything. Even if it could be available for 60s party buffs. That is only trick attack. TA is the only time a war's rotation would change. Warrior doesn't get to use other party buffs other than rdm and mnk, which line up with IR which means it is STILL LOCKED during that window, except you do it before and after, so it's a 14s burst instead of 10s. This changes nothing and just makes it 2 more "bigger fell cleaves" during ir. It's legitimately the same. Did not fix. Do not praise IC. It should just be an ogcd similar to upheaval, or GNB's blasting zone, as in take it off infuriate.

It is true that changing upheaval the way others are pitching would be bad, as in does have a drift issue.

"No one used it outside of prog", dungeons exist and still factor into this. So this raid mindset of it not mattering outside of raid is stupid. Also, it was used much in ultimates and openers.

Originally Posted by millktea

No. IC does not fix anything. Even if it could be available for 60s party buffs. That is only trick attack.

Every 60 seconds does not necessarily mean "only buffs which have a 60s cooldown." It refers to any buffs that occur at 1 minute intervals after the opener. For example, thanks to IC, we can take advantage of not only of every TA, but chain strategem and embolden as well, for those 120 timers wouldn't naturally line up with IR until the 6 minute mark.

Before, if an encounter were to end just before our IR coming up, we would cry in disappointment. Now, IC lessens that pain significantly.