Monk Needs a Complete Rework

[Tigerlilley]

I hope a dev looks at this post.

Let me go ahead and summarise the last 6 years of community Monk feedback for you.

[Noctisnine]

Let's face it the devs don't care about monk, because they look at damage charts and think oh he is good let's just ignore it and over buff summoner. Yes that sounds great! When we are the only job that has a server tic skill, the only job that has the most useless skill in the game which is tornado kick and six sided start should hit way harder. Dragoon is fun and has a very good fun rotation while buffing others and doing more dps then monk, ninja is also cooler then monk with a wide gap of skills that buffs the whole party and that does almost the same dps as monk and finally we have sam who has a shield, a gap closer and a skill to disengage alongside a nice rotation. We DESPERATELY need some love but you know something, I bet we are gonna get 0 nothing and for me a monk main its fucking depressing how the devs ignore our feedback.

[Tigerlilley]

the only job that has the most useless skill in the game which is tornado kick

Do you remember when we got the big speech pre Stormblood about culling useless skills then they left in One Ilm Punch.

That's the metric of how much they look at Monk.

[Shurrikhan]

Do you remember when we got the big speech pre Stormblood about culling useless skills then they left in One Ilm Punch.

You know what else prunes situational utility you find useless without demanding that no one else have access to it?

Taking it off your bar.

[SpeckledBurd]

You know what else prunes situational utility you find useless without demanding that no one else have access to it?

Taking it off your bar.

That snark doesn't hold water for a ton of reasons.

As Tigerlilley said, the stated design goal of Stormblood was to cull useless actions. As far as gameplay changes went, it was the single biggest talking point they had during the Fan Fests leading up to Stormblood. And the devs knew that One Ilm Punch was a terrible skill because there were multiple NPCs in the game with dialogue lines lampshading how bad of a skill was, indeed one of them was even in the Monk Questlines themselves.

It's not even worth giving them credit for changing the effect of it to a stun, because you could only use it a third of the time due to it being locked to Raptor Form, on the GCD at a massive TP and sizeable damage loss compared to just using Leg Sweep.

Let's not give the devs any credit with regard to Monk where they don't deserve it, and indeed, where they actively failed. The action rework they hyped up so much for Stormblood was an abysmal failure for Monk, they took as many or more skills from us that we use than those we didn't use and we got bupkiss back.

[Shurrikhan]

As Tigerlilley said, the stated design goal of Stormblood was to cull useless actions.

There's a difference between actions that aren't satisfying to use but are nonetheless obligatory and therefore cannot be taken off bars, such as Diversion and Invigorate, and ones that can be safely ignored except where they see use. We don't have a skill or total action allotment.

Jobs vary significantly in terms of total actions available to them; removing a skill does not guarantee another, nor, clearly, anything more useful or satisfying.

Let's not give the devs any credit with regard to Monk where they don't deserve it, and indeed, where they actively failed.

Let's not conflate being a bit peeved over the gradual removal of any and all utility that doesn't equal directly to rDPS as giving the devs credit in regards to anything, let alone Monk?

[Noctisnine]

I wonder if the Japanese players are also very unhappy with monk just as we are, it would be nice to get noticed by SE. I guess I will be changing into a dragoon or a samurai >.<

[SpeckledBurd]

There's a difference between actions that aren't satisfying to use but are nonetheless obligatory and therefore cannot be taken off bars, such as Diversion and Invigorate, and ones that can be safely ignored except where they see use. We don't have a skill or total action allotment.

Jobs vary significantly in terms of total actions available to them; removing a skill does not guarantee another, nor, clearly, anything more useful or satisfying.


Let's not conflate being a bit peeved over the gradual removal of any and all utility that doesn't equal directly to rDPS as giving the devs credit in regards to anything, let alone Monk?

And there's a difference between skills like those and skills that don't see use at all because their design rendered it non-functional in all situations.

If you're peeved about the removal of One Ilm Punch I don't know what to tell you dude. There have been Niche actions in the game on all jobs that may as well have been useless, but One Ilm Punch wasn't utility. It was a button that did nothing but punish you for hitting it without actually giving you any effect because it was so bad. Its the only truly useless skill the game has ever seen and you're trying to argue that it's loss is a problem.

I wonder if the Japanese players are also very unhappy with monk just as we are, it would be nice to get noticed by SE. I guess I will be changing into a dragoon or a samurai >.<

While I can't read Japanese, through the power of google translate I can say that it at least seems like the JP playerbase have definitely been pretty vocal in their dissatisfaction with Shadowbringers Monk.

[Shurrikhan]

And there's a difference between skills like those and skills that don't see use at all because their design rendered it non-functional in all situations.

If you're peeved about the removal of One Ilm Punch I don't know what to tell you dude. There have been Niche actions in the game on all jobs that may as well have been useless, but One Ilm Punch wasn't utility. It was a button that did nothing but punish you for hitting it without actually giving you any effect because it was so bad.

Fun strawman. Fun hyperbole.

I said that I'd prefer that situational skills (Defensives beyond merely Second Wind for DPS, Bloodbath for Tanks, etc., etc.) not be killed on sight over a mistaken belief that they will be replaced with something better. When something replaces them at all, they tend to be more obligatory actions, sure, but rarely any more satisfying, often trading non-obligatory "bloat" for obligatory "bloat".

OIP traded 50 potency for a stun. That is quite literally an effect. It's mostly crap, but it is an effect, whereby if that stun let, say, your SAM manage a single extra positional and you save a fifth of a GCD of uptime by not having to run out and back, it was already an rDPS gain. That's far from as useful as it could or should have been, but unless the existence of every single weaponskill besides the most optimal in a given GCD is likewise "punishing you" just for being a choice that you didn't take off your hotbar, it's just a niche skill, not a poison.

I never argued its loss was a problem. I argued that removing things the use of which wasn't obligatory in the first place, usually to be replaced by something obligatory but no more satisfying -- or by nothing at all, is at best a lateral move.

Something unenjoyable that you don't have to deal with (e.g. OIP) is generally going to be a fair sight better than something unenjoyable that you are obliged to deal with (e.g. Anatman openers). Insisting that every skill that sees situational use be removed without any idea of what to replace it with does us no favors.

[Mikey_R]

OIP traded 50 potency for a stun. That is quite literally an effect. It's mostly crap, but it is an effect, whereby if that stun let, say, your SAM manage a single extra positional and you save a fifth of a GCD of uptime by not having to run out and back, it was already an rDPS gain. That's far from as useful as it could or should have been, but unless the existence of every single weaponskill besides the most optimal in a given GCD is likewise "punishing you" just for being a choice that you didn't take off your hotbar, it's just a niche skill, not a poison.

If you are looking into optimising fights that much, ignoring the communication hurdle, the boss will be immune to stuns anyway, making it complete non issue. For dungeon runs, it really doesn't matter as again, bosses are mostly immune to stun and trash goes down to mass AoE, again, not useful (if you want to inturrupt AoEs you use Leg Sweep and keep the massive damage gain of Four-point Fury over One Ilm Punch).

Even on the case where you want to stun something for an extended period of time, eg. Dread Knights in Twintania (assuming synced), you are better off with leg sweep from both monk and the OT, that's 6 seconds of stun time, which is more than enough time to kill it.

It is literally a useless skill, even the function it was meant to serve is non existent as nothing will be immune to stun in the time it takes for the stun resist to wear off, unless people are using it haphazardly, in which case, it's the players causing the problem, not the content. As a slight, but relevant tangent, I don't have Shield Bash on my PLD bars. There are no situations where I would want to stun anything that quickly and Leg Sweep has always been available for when I do need it. Chain stuns just are not needed at all and again, things lose their stun resist before you need to use it again for the 4th time, so being able to stun through the resist was a completely useless feature that Monk had.