Monk Needs a Complete Rework

[ReviaInfantry]

It might be a good idea to put six sided star gcd to its own really. Retain it's potency, raised cooldown to base 10s but now it is independent of basic rotations gcd. (Something like mch drill)

And yes tornado kick should be upgraded.

If we have greased lightning make every element 4 GL special effects: wind to reduce gcd by further 10% (total 50%), earth to ignore positionals completely, and fire to increase chakhra by one after each 3rd form rotations.

But by that above riddle of earth and some positional skills will be invalid so maybe earth should have other effects, knock back immunity maybe?

[Nantain_Shiva]

the only "rework" i need



+ BONUS:

Delete the job bar and add:

[Mahrze]

I see, and that's fair. I've never thought of it being a problem that the buff moves around on my status bar, but I probably have my icons a lot smaller than most people, so I'm always seeing them in the same glance regardless of whether they're the first or sixth buff. I could see why others would be annoyed by the movement, though.

I think its more that it speaks how most of the job gauges barring maybe BLM don't really show the resources that are available for each job. Its a design flaw and MNKs "job ui" is the least informative. Not saying Job UIs should display every little buff. But something like the MNK UI is definitely lacking by contrast.

[Sora_Oathkeeper]

My concern was more that so much power is being placed into Coeurl skills only, and only after a certain, fairly late level, leading to an even less cohesive leveling experience on a job already with arguably... the worst leveling experience bar perhaps DRK.

We're currently at this point with the Opo-opo form, see: Bootshine under Leaden Fist. All MNK's power is frontloaded into Bootshine. The difference between LF Bootshine and every other stanced GCD is around 1200~dps.

https://www.fflogs.com/reports/rVNqB...-done&source=8

If we look at this log, Bootshine accounts for 1.7m worth of damage, while Demo (including the upfront damage) and Snap are 1.2m and 1.06m worth of damage respectively. That's a huge 500k worth of damage over Demo and over 700k worth of damage over Snap punch. Looking at other jobs in the party, no other job has this huge discrepancy of damage between its skills. It just seems like the devs had no intuitive way to make DK relevant, so instead gave a huge buff to Bootshine through DK. This then makes Bootshine the worst skill to miss a positional on as it's 150 potency gone (the equivalent of missing 7~ positionals). I just fail to find the rationality behind frontloading an ability like that instead of spreading that potency elsewhere and making DK more interesting or at least have relevance with the MNK aesthetic, such as why is a kicking move giving us a fist buff? Do we scrape our hands along to ground to harden them up while performing dragon kick or something? It feels like MNK is still actually just a PGL with some minor MNK-esque skills, most of which are relatively niche or locked behind RNG.

One could argue that SAM has so much DPS front loaded into Midare Setsugekka, but that skill has no positional attached to it and so will always, barring crits etc.. be consistent in damage and it adds to the SAM aesthetic. Leaden Fist is just a tacked on buff that doesn't really make any sense. Bootshine was never this huge hitting skill before. In fact Snap Punch, TK and Demo were all the top leaders back in SB and the damage was more evenly spaced out among the kit as you can see here:

https://www.fflogs.com/reports/gCnYx...-done&source=3

Leaden Fist is more or less the whole reason we had the Janky Anatman openers because PB was better suited to spamming DK and BS because of the huge damage increase it gives. I think the devs missed the mark with MNK this expansion. Not just in aesthetic, but also in how the job has become centered around Leaden Fist for damage. All stance combos were within 5% total damage of each other, now it's shot up to over 10% because of LF.

[Shurrikhan]

We're currently at this point with the Opo-opo form, see: Bootshine under Leaden Fist. All MNK's power is frontloaded into Bootshine. The difference between LF Bootshine and every other stanced GCD is around 1200~dps.

I've made no claim that we didn't already have that problem. I just don't think doubling down on the problem will somehow make it better, or at the least, no worse. I'd rather just fix the problem directly, as I've been pushing for since my Monk hit 80, some couple weeks into playing ShB -- either greatly nerf Dragon Kick's effect until its consequent positional bonus doesn't so exceed that of other skills and LF-Bootshine's total output doesn't so steeply outperform any other otherwise-proper use of a GCD, or change the effect completely.

The failure to tune Monk's skills against each other has cost us variance in rotations, ability to mitigate or bypass would-be lost positionals through preemptive rotation, a fair bit of fluidity, and so much more. Taken in sum, it's damn near gutted the whole feel of being a Monk, especially over its time spent leveling.

I'd gladly give up Form Shift GL refreshes, Leaden Fist burst, and Riddle of Earth's positional nullification if it just meant having back a proper internal balance and a bit more fluidity and responsiveness throughout gameplay.

[Ultimatecalibur]

If we look at this log, Bootshine accounts for 1.7m worth of damage, while Demo (including the upfront damage) and Snap are 1.2m and 1.06m worth of damage respectively. That's a huge 500k worth of damage over Demo and over 700k worth of damage over Snap punch.

Just going by Total damage dealt by each doesn't actually tell the whole truth. You need to also look at the number of hits with each ability and the average damage of each form's gcds.

Bootshine dealt 39.5k per hit on average with 45 hits, Dragonkick dealt 20.3k per hit on average with 48 hits, Demolish dealt 45.2k per hit on average with 30 hits and Snap Punch dealt 21.3k per hit on average with 50 hits. On average the Opo-Opo gcds dealt about 29.6k per hit with 93 hits and the Coeurl gcds dealt 30.26 with 80 hits. For additional comparison, Twin Snakes dealt an average of 15.8k per hit with 39 hits and True Strike dealt 23.9k per hit with 38 giving Raptor form an average of 19.79k per hit with 77 hits.

Please note: I originally attempted to do the math to support you premise that Bootshine was doing to much damage even though I saw a flaw in your argument (You were comparing Bootshine to Demolish and Snap Punch individually rather than comparing the average form damage of Dragon->Boot and Demo->Snap->Snap) but it turned out to favor the idea that both forms are actually dealing fairly balanced damage. Heck the math even shows that the new rotation is more evenly distributed on average than the StB rotation which heavily favored Coeurl form moves.

Looking at other jobs in the party, no other job has this huge discrepancy of damage between its skills.

Paladin has a bigger discrepancy if you look at Atonement alone being one of the dominant sources of damage followed by Goring Blade and forget that Atonement needs the Royal Authority combo. In the end The 5 gcd Holy Spirit+Confietor string ends up having the highest average damage once you factor in that Atonementx3 is actual a 6 gcd string.

The Leadened Fist buff actually ends up evening out the monks damage distribution even if Bootshine does become a spike.

It just seems like the devs had no intuitive way to make DK relevant, so instead gave a huge buff to Bootshine through DK. This then makes Bootshine the worst skill to miss a positional on as it's 150 potency gone (the equivalent of missing 7~ positionals).

Missing the positional on Bootshine isn't as bad as you make it out to be because a Crit still has a chance to occur even without a positional. In theory you could miss every Bootshine positional and still do the same damage as someone who hit every positional. It is still bad but closer to missing 4 other positionals rather than 7.

I just fail to find the rationality behind frontloading an ability like that instead of spreading that potency elsewhere and making DK more interesting or at least have relevance with the MNK aesthetic, such as why is a kicking move giving us a fist buff? Do we scrape our hands along to ground to harden them up while performing dragon kick or something? It feels like MNK is still actually just a PGL with some minor MNK-esque skills, most of which are relatively niche or locked behind RNG.

I think their intent was to maintain the single target benefit when converting Dragonkick's single target blunt resist down debuff into a damage buff while maintaining the alternating between Dragonkick and Bootshine portion of the rotation. In the grand scheme of things Bootshine and Dragonkick end up averaging into a 250 potency attack with about a 66% crit rate if all positionals are hit.

[inhaledcorn]

It might be a good idea to put six sided star gcd to its own really. Retain it's potency, raised cooldown to base 10s but now it is independent of basic rotations gcd. (Something like mch drill)

And yes tornado kick should be upgraded.

If we have greased lightning make every element 4 GL special effects: wind to reduce gcd by further 10% (total 50%), earth to ignore positionals completely, and fire to increase chakhra by one after each 3rd form rotations.

But by that above riddle of earth and some positional skills will be invalid so maybe earth should have other effects, knock back immunity maybe?

I do like this idea for SSStar as it just feels otherwise unneeded. Kinda bring back ToD in some fashion, though less DoT and more big hit. They would probably have to remove the increased GCD window, of course.

I don't think this really makes fist stances, or at least Earth Stance, more viable. You just made Wind better for every non Courel stance ability. It might make the job too busy with the constant shifting of stances. The only way I see this working is if they keep SSStar the way it currently is.

[inhaledcorn]

Anyway, what I came here to post:

After further reading, I think Tornado Kick does need a rework, and I had two ideas:

Idea 1: making it more like Foul, as in you can use it as long as you keep GL up for a certain amount of time. With the update to Form Shift, this can make a fairly consistent big hit.

Idea 2: to play off the gaining of Chakra and my earlier suggestion of gaining Gates for each gain/refresh of GL, this is another Chakra skill, but it sits on a timer, like how you have your spammable Kenki/Ninki skills, then that one that you build up to use.

I think I'd rather have the former than the latter, imo, as I feel the Foul-like mechanic would be more fun. However, if this becomes a Chakra skill, Six-Sided Star could become the Foul-like skill for Monk, as I really feel it could benefit from it.

Fist stances: I think Wind and Fire should become passives, with Earth becoming similar to Riddle of Earth (cooldown that resets GL and reduces incoming damage) until Riddle of Earth is learned, replacing it outright (which grants the ignore positional buff).

[Burningskull]

What if they removed GL as a timer you had to upkeep and made it a trait. (Or keep it if you prefer). But gave you combo finishers that required you to be in Fists of Earth/Fire/Wind to use, all on their own GCD timers. Tornado Kick > Wind. Six Sided Star > Fire. Something > Earth. Each Combo Finisher also builds Chakra at a 100% rate. Meaning one Finisher = 1 Chakra. You spend Chakra on even bigger hits like Forbidden Chakra or Enlightenment (I think that's the name).

This would privide more of an evolution to the job. Pugilist teaches you your forms and combos and how to improve your speed with the GL trait. Monk comes along and shows you that by comboing right and in the right stance, aka Fist of Element, you can release your energy in combo finishers. Then later you learn you can also open Chakas with those finishers to now unleash even more devastating moves.

[Seraphor]

What about this for 6.0:

Telekinesis: 200 potency damage, range 25y, costs all remaining MP (1000 minimum)