Mediocrity should NOT be the standard for players in any content.

[DynnDiablos]

In the end, this is a game. I play it the way I wish to and what brings me the most enjoyment. Honestly, if people don't want to learn or don't care. They have every right to do that. This is what comes with playing an MMO, you play with a wide range of people with different attitudes, goals and motivations. Not all of them are going to line up with your own. I have a very hard time retaining mechanics. I could do a dungeon 10, 20, 30 times and I will not retain a single thing. It's not that I am not trying or don't care. I simply cannot retain the information.

Thankfully, I am good with visual cues, text cues and keeping an eye on what my party is doing so I make sure to at least not detract from the group. However, there are people who scream at me for simply not remembering basic things. I am sorry, I've tried. My memory wipes after I do a dungeon.

I think people trying to go into Savage and EX things with the "I don't care" mentality is a different story. Knowing my mechanics memory issues, I simply don't dabble in end game raiding. I will do the normal ones for clears and gear, but I won't touch the super elite content because I know I would end up not helping.

Regardless, though, in the end. This is just a game. And people do have the option to not give a darn how their play style impacts your enjoyment of the game. It just goes with the territory and SE isn't going to restrict things and make a game less accessible for professional raiders or those who want smooth sailing in everything they do. That is why they have the PF, so you can create the party that best suits you.

[Valic]

In the end, this is a game. I play it the way I wish to and what brings me the most enjoyment. Honestly, if people don't want to learn or don't care. They have every right to do that. This is what comes with playing an MMO, you play with a wide range of people with different attitudes, goals and motivations. Not all of them are going to line up with your own. I have a very hard time retaining mechanics. I could do a dungeon 10, 20, 30 times and I will not retain a single thing. It's not that I am not trying or don't care. I simply cannot retain the information.

Thankfully, I am good with visual cues, text cues and keeping an eye on what my party is doing so I make sure to at least not detract from the group. However, there are people who scream at me for simply not remembering basic things. I am sorry, I've tried. My memory wipes after I do a dungeon.

I think people trying to go into Savage and EX things with the "I don't care" mentality is a different story. Knowing my mechanics memory issues, I simply don't dabble in end game raiding. I will do the normal ones for clears and gear, but I won't touch the super elite content because I know I would end up not helping.

Regardless, though, in the end. This is just a game. And people do have the option to not give a darn how their play style impacts your enjoyment of the game. It just goes with the territory and SE isn't going to restrict things and make a game less accessible for professional raiders or those who want smooth sailing in everything they do. That is why they have the PF, so you can create the party that best suits you.

See, there's a difference between elitists and hardcore players who understand it takes a good level of competence and optimization to do savage content... and just doing the BARE MINIMUM of your job that you should have known for 70 levels now.



This for example.... should not be a thing. You shouldn't be allowed in an expert roulette with gear that isn't 80. You shouldn't NOT know by now that you've had aoe skills for 70 levels now and use them in every single dungeon to clear trash mobs and mass packs of enemies. But, because there's no content in the MSQ that forced the player to go "oh, I can't do this, I'm too weak, maybe I need better gear" or "well, I'm not able to kill these for some reason because they keep respawning, maybe I can kill them all at once?"... or ANYTHING that requires a player to think. This is what we're subjected to. I'm sorry but no, it's not okay that at this level and this far into the game after this many dungeons/instances a player is allowed to be a complete idiot and be rewarded for it. This could be said that just the player's fault here.... and it is. But SE isn't helping by making content more and more "casual friendly" and giving people all this room to just stomp on everything with less than bare minimum. PF or duty roulette, you'll find people that are this bad and they're allowed to be and again... REWARDED for it. Imagine doing a normal trial roulette (one without a platform you can fall off of) and dying every single time to anything, you don't do dps, you waste the healer's mana in ressing you, and its all because you either A. didn't bother to put on armor because somehow you can get away with doing this... or B. decided "eh, I don't care, if I die, I die, it's just another roulette. I'm sure everyone else will handle this just fine".

Trying to learn and still dying, fine, you're giving effort and power to you if you actually chat and ask how to not die to a mechanic. But purposefully not trying to utilize your tools given to you by the job you picked? You're hindering everyone's time and progress doing that. It's selfish and borderline can be considered harassment given the circumstances. Everyone by level 80 should know what a stack marker means, and know that mitigation is needed for tanking or they will die no matter how much healing is given. Unfortunately... that is not the case because of everything I've mentioned prior. You can be a tank, put on the stance, and spam 1 GCD, not a whole combo, but just 1 GCD and you will be "just fine" so long as your healers spam heals on you. You don't have to improve worth a damn, mitigation? Who needs it right? There's a point where this game should push the player to understand they have to start figuring things out, look around, recognize patterns, or ya know.. bare minimum.... know what their job does in order to clear content..... but if you can already clear the majority of content without 80% of your skillset... Then I guess GG. the fight takes 2 hours to finish cuz of that, but hey... you still "win" because bare minimum effort and lack of comprehension through SE's lack of tutorial and guidance.


There was a time in SB where we fight Sadu and it forces us through an endurance test. It was difficult as a solo instance, you had to dps well enough but also understand prioritization of dps. What things needed it when, and where. A very simple basic thing we learned back in HW I feel like. It made me have to really dig into learning how to do decent dps as a tank(or ninja, I can't remember, I failed to it quite a few times). Despite that difficulty, I appreciated it immensely upon finally clearing it, because I earned it and because I learned something about my job(s) for myself first hand by myself thanks to that instance. It was rewarding, my reward? I got to progress further into the MSQ and see more story I enjoy. What happened soon after? They nerfed it, which.. fine, understandable, it was pretty hard even for me. Then on top of that.... easy and very easy were offered as difficulties. At that point, what's a dps rotation matter? Why should it matter what I target? What order, why I'm dying? Who cares if all it takes is less than nothing.

[DynnDiablos]

See, there's a difference between elitists and hardcore players who understand it takes a good level of competence and optimization to do savage content... and just doing the BARE MINIMUM of your job that you should have known for 70 levels now.



This for example.... should not be a thing. You shouldn't be allowed in an expert roulette with gear that isn't 80. You shouldn't NOT know by now that you've had aoe skills for 70 levels now and use them in every single dungeon to clear trash mobs and mass packs of enemies. But, because there's no content in the MSQ that forced the player to go "oh, I can't do this, I'm too weak, maybe I need better gear" or "well, I'm not able to kill these for some reason because they keep respawning, maybe I can kill them all at once?"... or ANYTHING that requires a player to think. This is what we're subjected to. I'm sorry but no, it's not okay that at this level and this far into the game after this many dungeons/instances a player is allowed to be a complete idiot and be rewarded for it. This could be said that just the player's fault here.... and it is. But SE isn't helping by making content more and more "casual friendly" and giving people all this room to just stomp on everything with less than bare minimum. PF or duty roulette, you'll find people that are this bad and they're allowed to be and again... REWARDED for it. Imagine doing a normal trial roulette (one without a platform you can fall off of) and dying every single time to anything, you don't do dps, you waste the healer's mana in ressing you, and its all because you either A. didn't bother to put on armor because somehow you can get away with doing this... or B. decided "eh, I don't care, if I die, I die, it's just another roulette. I'm sure everyone else will handle this just fine".

Trying to learn and still dying, fine, you're giving effort and power to you if you actually chat and ask how to not die to a mechanic. But purposefully not trying to utilize your tools given to you by the job you picked? You're hindering everyone's time and progress doing that.

You really didn't address anything I said. I understand the gear requirements and that people should have the right level gear for certain dungeons, so I will agree with you on that. However, people retain information differently (I can't retain it at all) and people learn differently. Also, as I said this is a GAME and your frustration while warranted, is not accounted for in this game's design. People have right to be great just as they have every right to be awful and not care. While this can truly be a bone of contention for players who want to swiftly clear content and move along, it is just part of playing an MMO.

Thankfully, despite my issues remembering dungeons and mechanics I am at least completely geared and augmented, so I am not a complete failure in life.

[Valic]

You really didn't address anything I said. I understand the gear requirements and that people should have the right level gear for certain dungeons, so I will agree with you on that. However, people retain information differently (I can't retain it at all) and people learn differently. Also, as I said this is a GAME and your frustration while warranted, is not accounted for in this game's design. People have right to be great just as they have every right to be awful and not care. While this can truly be a bone of contention for players who want to swiftly clear content and move along, it is just part of playing an MMO.

Thankfully, despite my issues remembering dungeons and mechanics I am at least completely geared and augmented, so I am not a complete failure in life.

I did address it in the sentence mentioning trying to learn is fine. As for it being a game, I don't find that as an excuse for mediocrity. In a time years ago, you had to do as kids say now "get gud" to keep going into a game's story. See games like "Getting Over It With Bennet Foddy" that remind you there were times when a game's difficulty was driven by their own will to continue and succeed. Your victory was granted by the effort you gave, not because the developers deigned you guaranteed access to "win". A speedy clear or not, that shouldn't be the end result of learning how to be geared and use your skills. The problem here is there is no line for this type of deal. In your case, again I say... fine if you retain information differently than others but you at least understand what an aoe is, you understand a stack marker = stack, you understand a tank is made to tank... common practices. A group should not be able to defeat or complete a dungeon if they can't grasp these basics imo. In the same way that if you were playing Mario, you don't beat the level if you don't find a way to jump over a platform correctly. The same way if you try to beat a Zelda game, you have to identify what you need in gear to defeat the boss and when to strike. The same way in prior FF games that you have to decide what magic to use, when to heal, when to deal damage, and how much of it needs to go out to who. The same reason in a metal gear solid game, you have to identify when to walk/run/crawl or be stealth vs killing something. FFXIV? Hit 1, repeat.... you win. Lose? Nah, the developers will cover that for you and you will either just have a very brutal and long win, or a quick win.. either way, you win.

I want to say you're missing my point herein that this game is not setting a line for doing the bare minimum of challenge. I'm not asking for complicated patterns and steps that confound people. I'm saying that you level your class, you should be able to do what your class does or else the penalty is defeat. There should be some form of tutorial forced on you in the game that you AREN'T allowed a pass through with an easy clear of. That forces the average player to understand they need to identify things, even if they fail at them don't remember them, or etc... They HAVE to be able to do X to "win". this game's "X" is very.. very... very... lacking in base requirements.

[Novae]

I might be wrong but don't you need ilvl 430 to be able to queue for EX roulette?

[SieyaM]

This for example.... should not be a thing. You shouldn't be allowed in an expert roulette with gear that isn't 80. You shouldn't NOT know by now that you've had aoe skills for 70 levels now and use them in every single dungeon to clear trash mobs and mass packs of enemies. But, because there's no content in the MSQ that forced the player to go "oh, I can't do this, I'm too weak, maybe I need better gear" or "well, I'm not able to kill these for some reason because they keep respawning, maybe I can kill them all at once?"... or ANYTHING that requires a player to think. This is what we're subjected to. I'm sorry but no, it's not okay that at this level and this far into the game after this many dungeons/instances a player is allowed to be a complete idiot and be rewarded for it. This could be said that just the player's fault here.... and it is. But SE isn't helping by making content more and more "casual friendly" and giving people all this room to just stomp on everything with less than bare minimum. PF or duty roulette, you'll find people that are this bad and they're allowed to be and again... REWARDED for it. Imagine doing a normal trial roulette (one without a platform you can fall off of) and dying every single time to anything, you don't do dps, you waste the healer's mana in ressing you, and its all because you either A. didn't bother to put on armor because somehow you can get away with doing this... or B. decided "eh, I don't care, if I die, I die, it's just another roulette. I'm sure everyone else will handle this just fine".

I think the most telling part here is that you would rather force a kick by disconnect rather than try to even attempt to help another player. With an attitude like yours becoming more common it is very possible they have gone all the way to 80 without anyone telling them anything about AoE rotations. As for the gear, I thought they were adding minimum ilevel to most things now.

[Lastelli]

In the end, this is a game. I play it the way I wish to and what brings me the most enjoyment. Honestly, if people don't want to learn or don't care.

And on the other hand, this is a multiplayer (mostly cooperative) game. And since your actions impact other players, your freedom ends where theirs begins. If you don't want to learn or don't care in the sense that you're knowingly being a burder to your fellow players, you fail as a person before failing at the game.

[DynnDiablos]

And on the other hand, this is a multiplayer (mostly cooperative) game. And since your actions impact other players, your freedom ends where theirs begins. If you don't want to learn or don't care in the sense that you're knowingly being a burder to your fellow players, you fail as a person before failing at the game.

You have edited my comment into a sentence that is completely out of context with what I said. How dare you try to make it into something else. I was not referring to myself, and that sentence continues to say that if people don't want to learn or don't care that is their right. Why not post the whole quote and not an edited one to suit your purposes of calling me a "failure" as a person, where my entire comment actually discusses that I do all that I can not to burden others despite my casual play style.

[ReiMakoto]

You have edited my comment into a sentence that is completely out of context with what I said. How dare you try to make it into something else. I was not referring to myself, and that sentence continues to say that if people don't want to learn or don't care that is their right. Why not post the whole quote and not an edited one to suit your purposes of calling me a "failure" as a person, where my entire comment actually discusses that I do all that I can not to burden others despite my casual play style.

Think youre going a bit overboard on the touchyness here, pretty sure they were using a generic second person "you" rather than specifically referring to you as an individual

[NanaWiloh]

And on the other hand, this is a multiplayer (mostly cooperative) game. And since your actions impact other players, your freedom ends where theirs begins. If you don't want to learn or don't care in the sense that you're knowingly being a burder to your fellow players, you fail as a person before failing at the game.

I find more often then not it omni players being a burden. I have lost count of how many Omni players have encountered playing a healer and having no clue as to what they are doing. There is nothing wrong with leveling all battle classes but if you are going to go do group content with a class that is not your main bread and butter. Then learning the basics of that class should be the first thing you do before joining any group content. Of course not all omni levlers are this way and to those who take the time to learn the basics of the classes and play them well enough to not be a burden thank you!!