Mediocrity should NOT be the standard for players in any content.

[Alaeacus]

OP, I know this is going to be shock to your sensibilities to hear, but not every player in the game has the same goals and motivations as you. Some people just want to log into the game, join a group, and look at the pretty colors flash in front of their eyes. These players don't care how fast or efficient they go through a run. These players aren't trying to maximize their time. These players can play however they want. It's not SE's or your job to police how good at the game players must be.

There will always be these players and no amount of whining is going to change anything. There are many tools in the game that allow you to leave a group or avoid these players if you don't want to play with them. If you are choosing to enter roulettes than you need to accept the choice you made and deal with the potential consequences of getting matched with anyone under the sun. If you can't handle that, you may want to go back to your single-player games like Dark Souls where you can be as elitist and snide as you want.

[MrKusakabe]

In the end, this is a game. I play it the way I wish to and what brings me the most enjoyment. Honestly, if people don't want to learn or don't care. They have every right to do that. This is what comes with playing an MMO, you play with a wide range of people with different attitudes, goals and motivations. Not all of them are going to line up with your own.

This can be flipped upside down and basically towards the so-called elitists. I'd be fine with what you wrote there, because it's basically just common sense put in flowery words.

Look, you say "not the same goals and motivations". That is not right. We want to kill something in a dungeon. If YOU have not the goal to do so because "it does not give you the fun the way you wish" then it gets problematic. If you are playing a game like this, and you get into my party, I expect you the obvious goal and motivation: Getting things done. I swear to god, if I meet one more of this kind of people in my run I will let this person die on purpose and later start a kickvote. Selene will be commanded not to heal anyone and I take care of the others myself, but if you make my life harder, you will not care about yours. Same as Red Mage. No Vercure and Verraise then. This game is already okay-ish to go with a "Lalalala" (no pun intended) attitude and win, so don't act like some poor souls are lost out of anything important by just giving a bit of attention.

I am fine with all you said but as soon as I have to take your weight and you get the same rewards as I do I will get seriously pissed for obvious reasons.


Sincerely,

[BroFists]

How does this affect me? I don't care about others. You're exaggerating a bit don'tcha think?

[spf1200]

If I run into one more 70+ WHM that doesn't use Regen the whole run I will not be held responsible for my actions. OP may be going a bit over board but SE really need to add something to make sure player know the basics before allowing them to drag the rest of us down

[kujoestars]

I've never run into an issue personally with people expecting carries, but regardless random-grouping always comes with risks and if you aren't prepared for the possibility of spending a long while in a dungeon, you probably shouldn't be using Duty Finder. For me, I don't care how fast we do a dungeon as long as we get things done. Most of the time, we finish in a timely manner because everyone does their role well.

However, even in cases where someone isn't doing well (especially if it's the tank) I'd try to help coach them based on my own knowledge and stuff. But if they aren't asking for help or receptive....just make do or kick. That's how it always is with pick-ups. And frankly.....after being repeatedly traumatized by WoW pugging, Duty Finder is a welcome reprieve.

Basically, just deal with it like the rest of us, especially if you're rouletting. And bear in mind not everyone is forward enough to talk in chat so you don't know for sure if they're actually sandbagging or just new and afraid to ask for help.

[Novae]

I might be wrong but don't you need ilvl 430 to be able to queue for EX roulette?

[ForteNightshade]

This isn't an issue but people keep trying to make it one. No one forces you to queue with randoms. Stop trying to force your way onto people. You dont pay their sub. The dev's will never change things people wont change you can only change yourself.

Neither do they pay mine. Why does this argument work in defense of bad play but conveniently gets ignored when said bad play makes things slower or outright more difficult (depending on the content) for the remaining 3/7/23 people?

When it comes to DF content, I care far less though I'm still annoyed at people who can't be bothered to AoE or healers who refuse to DPS. When it comes to endgame though, your enjoyment or "sub" doesn't trump anyone else's. Don't join Savage parties if you're not going to contribute.

I might be wrong but don't you need ilvl 430 to be able to queue for EX roulette?

This was likely posted before Grand Cosmos released. Either way, you can easily make the ilvl with a hodgepodge of gear at varying levels. I wager they had just enough to get them to i410 but with a lvl 70 weapon their damage would be pitifully low.

[Nephisto]

I agree mediocrity should not be the standard for anyone in anything. Just be sure that your standards are not to high when you play a game in which the large majority of gamers are casual people just looking to have some fun. It's a game, not a job. I'm not saying that your standards are too much, but in a game, nothing is a question of life or death, so a lot of people don't have any standards, they just play a game, probably half-naked on a couch, a bit drunk and don't really caring about anything.

[Lium]

I didn't read the whole OP because I've already read it. I've seen it in the WoW forums numerous times over the years. I've seen it on the SWTOR forums and the ESO forums. I've seen it on the GW2 forums and on the Terra forums. I've seen it on the forums of every MMO I've ever played. Which is a LOT.

Here's the thing, the forums are not representative of the overall playerbase. In fact, it is a very small portion. Especially these days, where social media, Discord, blogs, etc. have rendered forums as virtual relics of the past. But the messages have not changed in all these years. "THE GAME IS TOO EASY!" "THEY'VE DUMBED DOWN CONTENT!" Or thread titles like the OP of this thread. Go look at any MMO site right now and you'll likely see a variant of it.

No one cares.

Seriously.

Now, if you're gripe is about people being unprepared for savage or extreme content, then you might have a point. For example, I'm not good enough for content like that and I play primarily for the story. So, I avoid savage/extreme and stick to normal raids and trials. And even then I die sometimes.

The point is, these types of threads are hyperbolic and overblown. They are also a dime a dozen. The vast majority of groups I get are fine. We clear content and everyone's happy. Occasionally, there's a hiccup with someone. And you know what? Sometimes that someone is me. But that is called gaming.

There are a few very hardcore sandbox MMOs out there right now. If that's the content you're looking, you should definitely look into them. (Hint: nobody plays 'em.)

[Packetdancer]

I did address it in the sentence mentioning trying to learn is fine. As for it being a game, I don't find that as an excuse for mediocrity. In a time years ago, you had to do as kids say now "get gud" to keep going into a game's story.

While I understand where you're coming from, I will point out that this—"games have gotten too easy"—was the mentality behind WildStar. The end result was that the players who were there for the story and atmosphere slammed into a skill wall at a certain point, got frustrated, and eventually left (taking their money with them); in comparison, the number of folks for whom 20-man raid content was a major draw was much smaller. Small enough, in fact, it wasn't enough to keep the game afloat.

Now, that wasn't the only factor that led to the game shuttering, by any means, but it was a pretty large one. And the result was that anyone who loved WildStar—even those who were like "git gud or git a different game"—could no longer play at all.

I doubt the percentage of modern MMO players who want to throw themselves at the wall repeatedly for the challenge as they improve their skills is as high as it once was; even folks who used to be serious raiders back in the early days now have kids and careers and fewer hours to play available in the week. If they have only an hour and a half free an evening, and that's insufficient to get through even one dungeon that's required by MSQ, how long are they going to stick around?

I think you can absolutely make an argument that it's great when optional content caters to those who want a challenge! But imposing high skill requirements just to progress the main story? I think that's an excellent way to chase away a lot of casual players and—in the best case scenario—reduce the game's operating budget.

The plain truth is that an MMO requires money to keep running. To make money, you need a playerbase. Thus, if you don't have a playerbase—and as a result, don't have money—you cannot keep the MMO running. Then nobody wins, because the game ceases to be accessible to anyone, no matter how good their skills are at the game.

And if you figure you can manage to keep an MMO afloat with just the 'hardcore srs skills' crew who will spend hours and hours perfecting how to get through one fight just to move the primary story forward...

Well, press 'F' to pay respects to WildStar.