Storm's Eye Is a Chore

[Satarn]

What's honestly funniest to me is that IRv2 is a better fit for DRK than WAR.

No, it's really not. It's a dumb mechanic in both cases, just like an upkeep buff which basically can't fall off is a dumb mechanic.

[Shurrikhan]

No, it's really not. It's a dumb mechanic in both cases, just like an upkeep buff which basically can't fall off is a dumb mechanic.

Consider, then, to which is the original a better, a job which cannot manipulate its timings and use the skill to enhance skill-gap and macrorotational concerns leading up to its use, or a job which cannot.

DRK has none of those capabilities. DRK has no macrorotational pressures; its complexity is entirely oGCD. WAR does have the tools to vary macrorotation. DRK is the only job, of the two, that stands to lose nothing from using IRv2, yet would see no benefit from something like IRv1.

Again, I'm not saying "free gauge skills for 10 seconds" is a good design. Far from it. I've been critical of it since it replaced IRv1. But, since Delirium's most often echoed issue is simply that it's "a copy of WAR's IR" (which, of course, it is), Warrior need only revert IR in order to fix that particular issue.

[Satarn]

Consider, then, to which is the original a better, a job which cannot manipulate its timings and use the skill to enhance skill-gap and macrorotational concerns leading up to its use, or a job which cannot.

DRK has none of those capabilities. DRK has no macrorotational pressures; its complexity is entirely oGCD. WAR does have the tools to vary macrorotation. DRK is the only job, of the two, that stands to lose nothing from using IRv2, yet would see no benefit from something like IRv1.

Again, I'm not saying "free gauge skills for 10 seconds" is a good design. Far from it. I've been critical of it since it replaced IRv1. But, since Delirium's most often echoed issue is simply that it's "a copy of WAR's IR" (which, of course, it is), Warrior need only revert IR in order to fix that particular issue.

DelIRium being copied from WAR is the loudest complaint because it's the easiest to see right away. That doesn't mean it's the main problem with DelIRium(in fact if DRK got a good mechanic copied from another job then it wouldn't be so bad even being a copy), nor is DelIRium even the biggest issue with the job right now honestly(imo).

Both WAR and DRK have issues providing satisfying gameplay right now and suggesting IR change on WAR just to differentiate the jobs, is taking attention away from the fact that they both need some big changes. It could potentially fix WAR just by the virtue of replacing bad mechanic with something potentially better, but it wouldn't do jack for DRK.

I just don't think it's productive to suggest kind of offhand, band-aid fixes like this, especially given SE's proven tendency to take the worst possible feedback seriously while ignoring actually well thought out suggestions.

Btw, technically the original "spam one button" mechanic was PLD's Requiscat and in SHB SE kind of doubled down on this by adding Attonment AND revamped MCH's Hypercharge to similar effect. They seriously love this crap for some weird freaking reason.

[Shurrikhan]

DelIRium being copied from WAR is the loudest complaint because it's the easiest to see right away. That doesn't mean it's the main problem with DelIRium(in fact if DRK got a good mechanic copied from another job then it wouldn't be so bad even being a copy), nor is DelIRium even the biggest issue with the job right now honestly(imo).

Both WAR and DRK have issues providing satisfying gameplay right now and suggesting IR change on WAR just to differentiate the jobs, is taking attention away from the fact that they both need some big changes. It could potentially fix WAR just by the virtue of replacing bad mechanic with something potentially better, but it wouldn't do jack for DRK.

I just don't think it's productive to suggest kind of offhand, band-aid fixes like this, especially given SE's proven tendency to take the worst possible feedback seriously while ignoring actually well thought out suggestions.

Btw, technically the original "spam one button" mechanic was PLD's Requiscat and in SHB SE kind of doubled down on this by adding Attonment AND revamped MCH's Hypercharge to similar effect. They seriously love this crap for some weird freaking reason.

Then, give me a Delirium suggestion that isn't just as bad as what we have? I don't have one on hand that wouldn't require larger diversity reworks for DRK.

That being said, Inner Release v1 was an objectively more nuanced and integral fit into Warrior's toolkit, and forfeiting it for v2 effectively gutted a fair bit of its mechanical complexity. Bringing v1 back for Warrior wouldn't just be a band-aid fix; it'd be a legitimate improvement -- one that brings back gauge manipulation via Onslaught rather than pooling all complexity merely on how much Storm's Eye duration you had to waste before it. And note... we're on a WAR thread here; it's hardly out of purpose to worry about both tanks here.

[shao32]

it's not like DRK couldn't get one if they need it, i mean Delirium is the biggest problem here but bloodweapon is badly adapted to his new purpose due how annoying is land 5 GCD on it or the status of AD and salted earth, the job could get ajustments on the darkside department too, TBN is the only competent change they get and is not free of dilema either.
i will preffer they come back to SB desing of bloodspiller and delirium since the only gameplay complaing of that day DA is no more and edge potency cover a low rate of spam with the new mp rates.

[Izsha]

Then, give me a Delirium suggestion that isn't just as bad as what we have? I don't have one on hand that wouldn't require larger diversity reworks for DRK.

That being said, Inner Release v1 was an objectively more nuanced and integral fit into Warrior's toolkit, and forfeiting it for v2 effectively gutted a fair bit of its mechanical complexity. Bringing v1 back for Warrior wouldn't just be a band-aid fix; it'd be a legitimate improvement -- one that brings back gauge manipulation via Onslaught rather than pooling all complexity merely on how much Storm's Eye duration you had to waste before it. And note... we're on a WAR thread here; it's hardly out of purpose to worry about both tanks here.

Inner Release V1 for pres, old berserk VP 2020! Make warrior great again!

[Satarn]

Then, give me a Delirium suggestion that isn't just as bad as what we have? I don't have one on hand that wouldn't require larger diversity reworks for DRK.

That's my point though: just changing Delirium alone won't really do much either, which is why most suggestions for it are pretty pointless. Like I said, Delirium is not even the biggest issue, it's merely one that's the easiest to meme on.

As for my "suggestion" I've already given it plenty of times - revert Delirium and a bunch of other skills to SB state while adding more things to spend MP on, to avoid Edge becoming just as spammy as DA was.

That being said, Inner Release v1 was an objectively more nuanced and integral fit into Warrior's toolkit, and forfeiting it for v2 effectively gutted a fair bit of its mechanical complexity. Bringing v1 back for Warrior wouldn't just be a band-aid fix; it'd be a legitimate improvement -- one that brings back gauge manipulation via Onslaught rather than pooling all complexity merely on how much Storm's Eye duration you had to waste before it. And note... we're on a WAR thread here; it's hardly out of purpose to worry about both tanks here.

Oh yeah, I'm not arguing that reverting IR would be bad - pre 4.2 WAR was great and I would love it returned to that state. Heck, I was the one who made that panicked thread, pleading for SE not to go through with the IR revamp as soon as we got the 4.2 patch notes and have been constantly whining about it ever since lol.

I just have an issue with suggesting that it's somehow a better fit for DRK - yeah it doesn't clash with DRK's gcd nuance, but that's just because DRK has nearly zero gcd nuance to begin with. It's still just tacked on and doesn't bring anything good to the job tough.
It's a better fit in similar way as it's better to break your left hand than your right if you're right-handed - it still sucks either way and certainly doesn't help, but I guess at least you can still write..?

[Kabooa]

That's my point though: just changing Delirium alone won't really do much either, which is why most suggestions for it are pretty pointless. Like I said, Delirium is not even the biggest issue, it's merely one that's the easiest to meme on.

Dark mainly lacks interactivity within its own kit. None of the moving parts are connected to each other.

Delirium itself is the crux of this because it is the one that can most readily change (I think very few people actually like Weaker IR) and can serve as the fulcrum to "Fix" the rest of the kit. ( Fix being subjective of course - For some anything less than Heavensward is unacceptable while others are perfectly satisfied with its current iteration.)

But this isn't the thread for that.

[Satarn]

Dark mainly lacks interactivity within its own kit. None of the moving parts are connected to each other.

Delirium itself is the crux of this because it is the one that can most readily change (I think very few people actually like Weaker IR) and can serve as the fulcrum to "Fix" the rest of the kit. ( Fix being subjective of course - For some anything less than Heavensward is unacceptable while others are perfectly satisfied with its current iteration.)

But this isn't the thread for that.

Neh, if you could only adjust a single skill then I'd say you could fix much more with Edge of Shadow. Reduce MP cost and remove the Darkside effect and you make buff upkeep not a joke anymore, forcing DRKs to save mp for using Flood every 30 seconds and effectively add more MP to play around with - both giving some more activity between raid buff bursts. Because Delirium has no connection to the kit to begin with, it'd be pretty hard to come up with anything that would somehow miraculously fix the synergy.

As for WAR, I think the changes to Infuriate(both adding charges and Inner Chaos) could've brought some good to WAR if it wasn't for the direct crits. The way Infuriate works right now, it's kind of a resource to manage in itself, along with the beast gauge, but lack of synergy with Litany, Chain and Voice makes managing this resource feel pointless half the time.
That said, if SE didn't make IC an auto directcrit then it'd be more optimal to use both Infuriate charges during IR rather than outside of it. As stupid as the whole "spam one gcd 5 times" thing is, I find the direct crits even more detrimental. I think simply reverting that effect to old Berserk buff and not allowing for Nascent Chaos to stack with it, would at least add some resource management in downtime back.

Just reverting IR and Berserk in their entirety isn't that simple either. Old gauge management partly depended on using Butcher's Block combo in order to not overcap and we've used Infuriate quite differently, which would affect Nascent Chaos. We also now have Nascent Flash, which heavily depends on those small windows of free directcrits from IR and Infuriate in order to be an effective heal. I'm sure it could be all worked around somehow, but it's not a quick and easy fix.