Storm's Eye Is a Chore

[Shurrikhan]

it's funny bcs the give IR to DRK was kinda a joke bcs we get bloodspiller? i don't remember anyone seriously asking for that and still SE comes and give DRK IR like seriously? nobody in the entire Dev team or yoshi himself would think that would make DRK feel a lot like a WAR? and what happen the "we want HW DRK come back" that apear in every threat? or scourge or other good stuff DRK use to have? sometimes i question the comunication capability of the Dev team for things like this wich is funny bcs only happens to tanks and DRK in particular for some reason, or we should start getting zero tolerance with memes on this forum to avoid reworks like the DRK rework since is absurd in so many levels.

What's honestly funniest to me is that IRv2 is a better fit for DRK than WAR. WAR has ways to manipulate its gauge to make IRv1 fun and compelling (especially if it just also doubled gauge generated during its duration in addition to the old half costs). DRK... doesn't.

I'd be more okay with people new to the game saying "DRK stole IR and forced WAR into a new mechanic" (that mechanic being the much more nuanced and toolkit-fitting skill it already had) than finding a similarly (or, more likely, even more) mediocre use of Delirium just to differentiate Warrior from DRK.

[shao32]

What's honestly funniest to me is that IRv2 is a better fit for DRK than WAR. WAR has ways to manipulate its gauge to make IRv1 fun and compelling (especially if it just also doubled gauge generated during its duration in addition to the old half costs). DRK... doesn't.

I'd be more okay with people new to the game saying "DRK stole IR and forced WAR into a new mechanic" (that mechanic being the much more nuanced and toolkit-fitting skill it already had) than finding a similarly (or, more likely, even more) mediocre use of Delirium just to differentiate Warrior from DRK.

If they leave inner delirium on DRK and rework IR I will kill my self I swear, there is nothing more mediocre that spam the same skill 5 times in a row specially if is bloodspiller any change to it will be better more if no takes a eternity to being used againg.

[Shurrikhan]

If they leave inner delirium on DRK and rework IR I will kill my self I swear, there is nothing more mediocre that spam the same skill 5 times in a row specially if is bloodspiller any change to it will be better more if no takes a eternity to being used againg.

We're talking stop-gap solutions either way. That being said, I still have yet to see a good idea from these forums for how to handle Delirium, and I've been a pretty dedicated topic-stalker in that regard. Maybe it's time for another thread's worth of options in hopes that it isn't likewise cherry-picked for its dullest suggestion?

[shao32]

We're talking stop-gap solutions either way. That being said, I still have yet to see a good idea from these forums for how to handle Delirium, and I've been a pretty dedicated topic-stalker in that regard. Maybe it's time for another thread's worth of options in hopes that it isn't likewise cherry-picked for its dullest suggestion?

More like a new thread worth of opinions about the Dev team and his work of DRK evolution or better say DRK involution over the pass of the expansions and still they probably pick the fullest suggestion and make the job a DPS or even better make it a WHM clone this time all day spamming the same spell yay.

[Satarn]

What's honestly funniest to me is that IRv2 is a better fit for DRK than WAR.

No, it's really not. It's a dumb mechanic in both cases, just like an upkeep buff which basically can't fall off is a dumb mechanic.

[Shurrikhan]

No, it's really not. It's a dumb mechanic in both cases, just like an upkeep buff which basically can't fall off is a dumb mechanic.

Consider, then, to which is the original a better, a job which cannot manipulate its timings and use the skill to enhance skill-gap and macrorotational concerns leading up to its use, or a job which cannot.

DRK has none of those capabilities. DRK has no macrorotational pressures; its complexity is entirely oGCD. WAR does have the tools to vary macrorotation. DRK is the only job, of the two, that stands to lose nothing from using IRv2, yet would see no benefit from something like IRv1.

Again, I'm not saying "free gauge skills for 10 seconds" is a good design. Far from it. I've been critical of it since it replaced IRv1. But, since Delirium's most often echoed issue is simply that it's "a copy of WAR's IR" (which, of course, it is), Warrior need only revert IR in order to fix that particular issue.

[Satarn]

Consider, then, to which is the original a better, a job which cannot manipulate its timings and use the skill to enhance skill-gap and macrorotational concerns leading up to its use, or a job which cannot.

DRK has none of those capabilities. DRK has no macrorotational pressures; its complexity is entirely oGCD. WAR does have the tools to vary macrorotation. DRK is the only job, of the two, that stands to lose nothing from using IRv2, yet would see no benefit from something like IRv1.

Again, I'm not saying "free gauge skills for 10 seconds" is a good design. Far from it. I've been critical of it since it replaced IRv1. But, since Delirium's most often echoed issue is simply that it's "a copy of WAR's IR" (which, of course, it is), Warrior need only revert IR in order to fix that particular issue.

DelIRium being copied from WAR is the loudest complaint because it's the easiest to see right away. That doesn't mean it's the main problem with DelIRium(in fact if DRK got a good mechanic copied from another job then it wouldn't be so bad even being a copy), nor is DelIRium even the biggest issue with the job right now honestly(imo).

Both WAR and DRK have issues providing satisfying gameplay right now and suggesting IR change on WAR just to differentiate the jobs, is taking attention away from the fact that they both need some big changes. It could potentially fix WAR just by the virtue of replacing bad mechanic with something potentially better, but it wouldn't do jack for DRK.

I just don't think it's productive to suggest kind of offhand, band-aid fixes like this, especially given SE's proven tendency to take the worst possible feedback seriously while ignoring actually well thought out suggestions.

Btw, technically the original "spam one button" mechanic was PLD's Requiscat and in SHB SE kind of doubled down on this by adding Attonment AND revamped MCH's Hypercharge to similar effect. They seriously love this crap for some weird freaking reason.

[Shurrikhan]

DelIRium being copied from WAR is the loudest complaint because it's the easiest to see right away. That doesn't mean it's the main problem with DelIRium(in fact if DRK got a good mechanic copied from another job then it wouldn't be so bad even being a copy), nor is DelIRium even the biggest issue with the job right now honestly(imo).

Both WAR and DRK have issues providing satisfying gameplay right now and suggesting IR change on WAR just to differentiate the jobs, is taking attention away from the fact that they both need some big changes. It could potentially fix WAR just by the virtue of replacing bad mechanic with something potentially better, but it wouldn't do jack for DRK.

I just don't think it's productive to suggest kind of offhand, band-aid fixes like this, especially given SE's proven tendency to take the worst possible feedback seriously while ignoring actually well thought out suggestions.

Btw, technically the original "spam one button" mechanic was PLD's Requiscat and in SHB SE kind of doubled down on this by adding Attonment AND revamped MCH's Hypercharge to similar effect. They seriously love this crap for some weird freaking reason.

Then, give me a Delirium suggestion that isn't just as bad as what we have? I don't have one on hand that wouldn't require larger diversity reworks for DRK.

That being said, Inner Release v1 was an objectively more nuanced and integral fit into Warrior's toolkit, and forfeiting it for v2 effectively gutted a fair bit of its mechanical complexity. Bringing v1 back for Warrior wouldn't just be a band-aid fix; it'd be a legitimate improvement -- one that brings back gauge manipulation via Onslaught rather than pooling all complexity merely on how much Storm's Eye duration you had to waste before it. And note... we're on a WAR thread here; it's hardly out of purpose to worry about both tanks here.

[shao32]

it's not like DRK couldn't get one if they need it, i mean Delirium is the biggest problem here but bloodweapon is badly adapted to his new purpose due how annoying is land 5 GCD on it or the status of AD and salted earth, the job could get ajustments on the darkside department too, TBN is the only competent change they get and is not free of dilema either.
i will preffer they come back to SB desing of bloodspiller and delirium since the only gameplay complaing of that day DA is no more and edge potency cover a low rate of spam with the new mp rates.

[Izsha]

Then, give me a Delirium suggestion that isn't just as bad as what we have? I don't have one on hand that wouldn't require larger diversity reworks for DRK.

That being said, Inner Release v1 was an objectively more nuanced and integral fit into Warrior's toolkit, and forfeiting it for v2 effectively gutted a fair bit of its mechanical complexity. Bringing v1 back for Warrior wouldn't just be a band-aid fix; it'd be a legitimate improvement -- one that brings back gauge manipulation via Onslaught rather than pooling all complexity merely on how much Storm's Eye duration you had to waste before it. And note... we're on a WAR thread here; it's hardly out of purpose to worry about both tanks here.

Inner Release V1 for pres, old berserk VP 2020! Make warrior great again!