Monk should it be "Nerfed" ?

[Metalwrath]

I mean I saw the buffs but there's a difference in seeing the buffs and understanding them. Espically when the patch didn't seem to actually increase their Damage, just fixed some issues, like Riddle of Fire. I don't play MNK but thought "oh hey these look okay, it might need some more tuning but it's nice to see they're still working on it.". I wasn't expecting those what seemed to me as some QoL changes to ramp MNK up to these levels of damage output. While still seemingly be annoying/unfun to actually play.

Unless there's another patch I missed, I'm just going off the 5.05 patch.

Im not sure you couldnt see how the extra free no positionals wasnt going to massivly increase their damage.The numbers probably havent jumped as much since the patch on lets say for example on e3s as the entire fight has no positional requirement but the changes for the other fights are absolutly huge for dps gains.Not to mention removing the slow down on riddle of fire means you are hitting more skills under that damage increase buff.
It's also only going to get more op as the patch goes on too as how crit scales with the free forbidden chakras you get.you'll see them more often the higher your crit stat is.

[MerlinCross]

Im not sure you couldnt see how the extra free no positionals wasnt going to massivly increase their damage.The numbers probably havent jumped as much since the patch on lets say for example on e3s as the entire fight has no positional requirement but the changes for the other fights are absolutly huge for dps gains.Not to mention removing the slow down on riddle of fire means you are hitting more skills under that damage increase buff.
It's also only going to get more op as the patch goes on too as how crit scales with the free forbidden chakras you get.you'll see them more often the higher your crit stat is.

*Flip* The riddle of Earth Change? No I actually couldn't see how much that would spike the damage when, as a non monk main or really understand how some of their stuff works, it still has to compete with Riddle of Fire or even Wind. My mind sees that and goes "Oh neat, one of their 3 buffs/stances got changed but they still have to pick one to be in right?"

I saw the Riddle of Fire buff as a bigger buff

[Metalwrath]

*Flip* The riddle of Earth Change? No I actually couldn't see how much that would spike the damage when, as a non monk main or really understand how some of their stuff works, it still has to compete with Riddle of Fire or even Wind. My mind sees that and goes "Oh neat, one of their 3 buffs/stances got changed but they still have to pick one to be in right?"

I saw the Riddle of Fire buff as a bigger buff

Ok i get you dont know anything at all about monk.Ill explain then.Riddle of earth used to put you into fists of earth stance.This was changed in SHadowbringers.So when you cast it now you stay in whatever fist stance you are in.So if you are in fists of fire you are stil in fists of fire stance during riddle of earth and when you get earths reply bonus.

[MerlinCross]

Ok i get you dont know anything at all about monk.Ill explain then.Riddle of earth used to put you into fists of earth stance.This was changed in SHadowbringers.So when you cast it now you stay in whatever fist stance you are in.So if you are in fists of fire you are stil in fists of fire stance during riddle of earth and when you get earths reply bonus.

I mean I'm not trying to hide that I really don't know much about Monk which is why I'm confused why it's seemed to have power spiked in damage while still not being fun to play somehow? Still thanks for the explanation, I see how that's a power spike if you can get both at once.

[ownagepuffs]

I mean I'm not trying to hide that I really don't know much about Monk which is why I'm confused why it's seemed to have power spiked in damage while still not being fun to play somehow? Still thanks for the explanation, I see how that's a power spike if you can get both at once.

Thing is, even before 5.05 Monk was still really strong. It was like neck and neck with DRG. But it still suffered from a very archaic playstyle and 2 very inflexible mechanics on top of the slowdown that everyone hated. Post 5.05 old problems went out and new problems arose, such as Form Shift making 2 of this expac's skills redundant and the job still being way too revolved around GL.

[Capn_Goggles]

Thing is, even before 5.05 Monk was still really strong. It was like neck and neck with DRG. But it still suffered from a very archaic playstyle and 2 very inflexible mechanics on top of the slowdown that everyone hated. Post 5.05 old problems went out and new problems arose, such as Form Shift making 2 of this expac's skills redundant and the job still being way too revolved around GL.

I would've thought this would have been the expansion that MNK received an actual overhaul since it's played essentially the same since ARR. I'm not saying it plays poorly right now or anything, but it's filled with some pretty baffling choices. There's so many ways of keeping greased lighting up now that it's impossible to drop it unless you die, which is already a heavy damage toll in and of itself, yet for some reason they wanted to keep greased lightning as it is without addressing it as a mechanic. Riddle of earth, along with refreshing greased lightning, is now essentially a 50% uptime true north while monk still has access to the normal version of true north, rendering positionals largely obsolete on a job where every attack in their main and off-combo is a positional. MNK still has tornado kick largely unchanged despite now having access to GL4, completely obviating it as a skill.

To me it just seems like they completely lacked any sort of vision this time around for monk, and the changes it received in 5.05 were knee-jerk band-aid solutions to longstanding QoL issues people have had with monk, and of course it ended up fairly overtuned because they clearly didn't put as much thought into what these changes would do. I should point out though, that I'm not nearly as devoted a monk player as other people, so take my opinion for what you will.

[SpeckledBurd]

I mean I'm not trying to hide that I really don't know much about Monk which is why I'm confused why it's seemed to have power spiked in damage while still not being fun to play somehow?

How well a job performs and how satisfying they are to play are two separate metrics. A job can perform extremely well or even reasonably well and the players can hate it or be indifferent to it.

Thing is, even before 5.05 Monk was still really strong. It was like neck and neck with DRG. But it still suffered from a very archaic playstyle and 2 very inflexible mechanics on top of the slowdown that everyone hated. Post 5.05 old problems went out and new problems arose, such as Form Shift making 2 of this expac's skills redundant and the job still being way too revolved around GL.

It's a little more extreme than that. By pretty much every metric except performance, Shadowbringers Monk at launch was a catastrophe that followed on the heels of what the devs admitted to be a failure of design. The devs not only failed to address any of the biggest problems players had with the Monk in Stormblood after acknowledging that Stormblood was a poor iteration of the job, but every new action except maybe Enlightenment that they implemented in Shadowbringers was also a complaint people had with Stormblood Monk. Enhanced Fists of Fire and GL4 have the same fundamental problem as Tackle Mastery in that they're Fists Stance Traits where the fist stances can be boiled down to "Sit in the one stance that boosts your damage the most" (which has been a problem of Monk design since ARR) and Six Sided Star and Anantman are redundant GL management skills, when a huge complaint in Stormblood was Monk having way too many GL management skills to begin with. The 5.05 Formshift change doesn't really add anything new in terms of problems, it just put a microscope on the problem of "There's an excessive number of GL Maintainence skills" by fixing the different problem of "Monk can't keep up it's buff in situations that other Jobs have no trouble at all in because all of these Maintenance skills are bad."

[MerlinCross]

How well a job performs and how satisfying they are to play are two separate metrics. A job can perform extremely well or even reasonably well and the players can hate it or be indifferent to it.

That people will put up with a job they dislike playing just due to the fact it puts the big numbers up on screen...., *shrug*