Monk should it be "Nerfed" ?

[Metalwrath]

So it's power is stupidly high but isn't that fun to actually play by the sounds of it.

Well when you are job thats supposed to be based off maximizing damage from positionals hence the justification for higher damage some people are trying to defend and then you go look at a 3 min window and see on average that only 35 seconds of that time you need to do actual positionals.
Monk needs a serious nerf or rework.Main people defending it how OP it is probably havent mained monk for a long time or are enjoying the mssive dps advantage for raids.
If we start useing monk to gauge how much other jobs need to be buffed it will ruin the game and make it easy mode because ALL jobs will end up being broken.

[Katie_Kitty]

I'm confused. At the start of the Expansion I saw a lot of complaining from MNKs and now their supposed to be one of the top DPS but I sometimes still see MNK's complain about the job.

WTH has happened with this class while I wasn't looking and why do people still complain about it considering it was the kicked dog for 2 expansions(One of them being their 'own poster' expansion)?

You must have missed the patch (post-release) where they massively buffed MNK

[MerlinCross]

You must have missed the patch (post-release) where they massively buffed MNK

I mean I saw the buffs but there's a difference in seeing the buffs and understanding them. Espically when the patch didn't seem to actually increase their Damage, just fixed some issues, like Riddle of Fire. I don't play MNK but thought "oh hey these look okay, it might need some more tuning but it's nice to see they're still working on it.". I wasn't expecting those what seemed to me as some QoL changes to ramp MNK up to these levels of damage output. While still seemingly be annoying/unfun to actually play.

Unless there's another patch I missed, I'm just going off the 5.05 patch.

[Metalwrath]

I mean I saw the buffs but there's a difference in seeing the buffs and understanding them. Espically when the patch didn't seem to actually increase their Damage, just fixed some issues, like Riddle of Fire. I don't play MNK but thought "oh hey these look okay, it might need some more tuning but it's nice to see they're still working on it.". I wasn't expecting those what seemed to me as some QoL changes to ramp MNK up to these levels of damage output. While still seemingly be annoying/unfun to actually play.

Unless there's another patch I missed, I'm just going off the 5.05 patch.

Im not sure you couldnt see how the extra free no positionals wasnt going to massivly increase their damage.The numbers probably havent jumped as much since the patch on lets say for example on e3s as the entire fight has no positional requirement but the changes for the other fights are absolutly huge for dps gains.Not to mention removing the slow down on riddle of fire means you are hitting more skills under that damage increase buff.
It's also only going to get more op as the patch goes on too as how crit scales with the free forbidden chakras you get.you'll see them more often the higher your crit stat is.

[MerlinCross]

Im not sure you couldnt see how the extra free no positionals wasnt going to massivly increase their damage.The numbers probably havent jumped as much since the patch on lets say for example on e3s as the entire fight has no positional requirement but the changes for the other fights are absolutly huge for dps gains.Not to mention removing the slow down on riddle of fire means you are hitting more skills under that damage increase buff.
It's also only going to get more op as the patch goes on too as how crit scales with the free forbidden chakras you get.you'll see them more often the higher your crit stat is.

*Flip* The riddle of Earth Change? No I actually couldn't see how much that would spike the damage when, as a non monk main or really understand how some of their stuff works, it still has to compete with Riddle of Fire or even Wind. My mind sees that and goes "Oh neat, one of their 3 buffs/stances got changed but they still have to pick one to be in right?"

I saw the Riddle of Fire buff as a bigger buff

[Aomine1992]

MNK is like super sayian level with utility, my biggest issue with MNK is its out dpsing BLM while offering more, while other jobs offering just as much or even less are taxed to hell and doing tons less.

SAM should definitely be neck and neck with BLM and MNK needs to be brought down or what’s the point of arguing about balance while MNK sticks out like a soar thumb....I won’t talk about job mechanics or difficulty because both are subjective.

[BarretOblivion]

Should MNK be nerfed?
No.
MNK has been fairly dead all during SB and right now its honestly in a good spot to the point many other jobs need buffs to catch up to them instead of nerfing. The DPS requirements of the current savage tier are still fairly tight on underperforming jobs, MNK doesn't single handidly blow any fight out of the water.

[Shurrikhan]

Should MNK be nerfed?
No.
MNK has been fairly dead all during SB and right now its honestly in a good spot to the point many other jobs need buffs to catch up to them instead of nerfing. The DPS requirements of the current savage tier are still fairly tight on underperforming jobs, MNK doesn't single handidly blow any fight out of the water.

Fairly dead? A good MNK could replace NIN in the DRG-MCH-BRD meta comps since Deltascape, and has typically outperformed NIN rDPS since early Alphascape.

Again, unless the Savage dps checks are just coincidentally undertuned even with off-meta compositions and were actually supposed to be tuned to the ease that 4 MNKs would currently experience without LB penalty, BLM, MNK, and DRG are presently overpowered. (Even now the dps checks are not tight due to underperforming jobs, only due to underperforming players. Short of multiple deaths, they're not at all an issue.) When you bring all jobs up to an overpowered level, i.e. make every job overpowered, the only difference from actually sticking to one's guns and tuning all jobs to the appropriate rDPS benchmark (even if that means some nerfs) is that you further trivialize content. Sure, Nerfs won't feel great for previously overpowered classes, but there is nothing wrong with nerfs in themselves; they are both helpful and necessary when they're the only option short of power creep.

[Rakeesh]

Fairly dead? A good MNK could replace NIN in the DRG-MCH-BRD meta comps since Deltascape, and has typically outperformed NIN rDPS since early Alphascape.

Again, unless the Savage dps checks are just coincidentally undertuned even with off-meta compositions and were actually supposed to be tuned to the ease that 4 MNKs would currently experience without LB penalty, BLM, MNK, and DRG are presently overpowered. (Even now the dps checks are not tight due to underperforming jobs, only due to underperforming players. Short of multiple deaths, they're not at all an issue.) When you bring all jobs up to an overpowered level, i.e. make every job overpowered, the only difference from actually sticking to one's guns and tuning all jobs to the appropriate rDPS benchmark (even if that means some nerfs) is that you further trivialize content. Sure, Nerfs won't feel great for previously overpowered classes, but there is nothing wrong with nerfs in themselves; they are both helpful and necessary when they're the only option short of power creep.

And yet in other threads people argue that RDM's raise is useless because a single death can cost you the fights in Eden Savage. Now it's multiple deaths are fine.

Earlier it's said that barely anyone has cleared Savage yet. Now the "OP" jobs trivialize the fights.

Damage checks are really tight so they have to buff the low end jobs. Now it's damage checks are easy and only bad players are the problem.

The shifting of goal posts currently going on just to argue in favor of nerfs is silly.

Fact is we don't know what the devs want the intended power level of our characters to be but considering they've been buffing jobs I'd tend to argue in favor of the high-end DPS are their actual vision and the rest are undertuned.

Power creep is a silly point since that only would apply to Eden Savage right now. Which has already been cleared in the first week it was released. What's there to creep anymore? Don't want all the "bads" to clear it because the other jobs should get buffs and it makes it "easier"?

That's literally the only piece of content right now where the 'power creep' thing makes the slightest bit of sense. No one could seriously mean future content because the devs can balance the fights around all the jobs doing higher damage.


TL;DR:
Arguments in favor of nerf:

Power creep > unsubstantial and pointless for the future
Unfair (uti. tax etc) > people being petty that their job hasn't been buffed yet


I'd say buff all the jobs now so no one feels slighted and ride the emotional high of a great expansion release and just balance future content around that. If you really want to, see Eden Savage as a sacrificial lamb for tons of future content still waiting for us and every job being happy with themselves.

[Crushnight]

Should MNK be nerfed?
No.
MNK has been fairly dead all during SB and right now its honestly in a good spot to the point many other jobs need buffs to catch up to them instead of nerfing. The DPS requirements of the current savage tier are still fairly tight on underperforming jobs, MNK doesn't single handidly blow any fight out of the water.

Mnk should not be beating Sam or Blm at 95 percentile+ EVER so long as it has Brotherhood and mantra and right now mnk is the only valid reason to buff Blm and that is absurd because we do not need the gulf to get wider between the bottom 5 dps than it already is, the mnk changes brought about unforeseen consequences and well atm i think it does need a nerf not a severe one but does need it, it is too strong and it gives to the party where both blm/sam just don't apart from dmg.