Every problem with the current iteration of healers.

[Hatstand]

Sorry to be replying not to Billy, but since there seem to be a few conversations popping up, just thought I'd put a reminder:

Second point: please do not use this thread as a means of debates with others, I believe there are plenty of threads where people on both sides have argued with each other. I'm asking you here to talk to me, and only to me. If someone responds to you, or you see they respond to someone else, just ignore it. I can think of one person in particular that will attempt to bring toxicity to this thread and try to turn it into something that it isnt. If that does happen, just ignore and move on, I don't want a snowball effect.

Maybe we could start a second thread to discuss what's in this one if people want to discuss it.

[nalol]

I agree with this; it's why I suggested all healers have a standardized set of four offensive spells to cover all the basics. What we really need are more support skills to use during our downtime, the very thing that made AST so captivating.

healers shouldn't differ only through heals. their dps "rotation" should make them different also. with strengths and weaknesses. standardisation is worst thing that can happen

It's not really the same, though? Protect was a pointless maintenance buff, and Divine Seal only affected yourself. This is a mass improvement, and is the direction we should be going in: more unique support for each healer job. Honestly, I think you may be the only person I've seen complain about the crystal wings that were a temporary item for a very old promotion...

unique ? it's same as SCH fey skill but stronger. since they nerfed the fey. so not so unique.

[kidalutz]

Why standardise though? Why not have a healer with a deep DPS kit, a healer with more and varied support, a simple and straightforward healer, a complex healer with strong kit interactions (inc. its DPS) ... make healing appeal to a broad range of people, not just those who like the 'standard'.

You, get told to stop bothering with the job you enjoy using the most because they're useless and see how long you keep an interest in even playing thats what you're suggesting we go back to.

[Acidblood]

You, get told to stop bothering with the job you enjoy using the most because they're useless and see how long you keep an interest in even playing thats what you're suggesting we go back to.

I'd rather have the choice to play a job that I enjoy (and screw what parser slaves think) than have no choice and be forced to play a 'balanced' job that's boring…. In fact I would just quit the game at that point, games are supposed to be fun.

[tikiwiki]

Although the damage department of each healer has previously given more depth to playing each, I think the redirection away from focusing on the how of damage suits the role more. Even if not much has been done to put depth into other areas of play, if someone wants DPS interactions then that's what a DPS job does, not a healer. I don't think the primary draw of being a healer is to weave DPS personality interests into it.

if i wasnt still casting my dps spells for 90% of my gcds i might agree with you but when most of a healers time is spent doing damage in this game we need our damage spells to be given as much focus by the devs as our healing toolkit

[Toystore]

Why standardise though? Why not have a healer with a deep DPS kit, a healer with more and varied support, a simple and straightforward healer, a complex healer with strong kit interactions (inc. its DPS) ... make healing appeal to a broad range of people, not just those who like the 'standard'.



Divine Seal was available at level 50 (or lower?), as was Protect (which could have been reworked). Having those taken away and only given back at level cap is horrid.

I see this argument come up a lot. About having one healing class with a more complex dps rotation. There's a very good reason this will NEVER happen.

There's only two possible outcomes for making one healer a complex dps rotation healer:

1) You don't increase the dps ceiling. You simply nerf the potency of each skill in the rotation to make the maximum output of getting the rotation right on par with what we have now.

2) You do increasing the dps ceiling. Thereby punishing casual healers AND at the same time locking the other endgame healers out of the endgame meta because this new dps healer will always be able to bring more to the table.

A few players complaining on the healer forums that they're bored with the current 1 nuke and 1 dot is not enough to justify either of those outcomes. Some say they don't want potency increases they just want the same rotation with the same theoretical output but...c'mon, that's absurd. Nobody believes that. Nobody wants increased risk and complexity for no increased reward. Can you imagine what a mess it would be if that idea were implemented and suddenly you had non healer forum users who suddenly saw their dps plummet because a few people on the healer forums claimed they were bored with the nuke + dot?

Every group I've been in with Savage Titan seems to be having a hell of a time with how complex the fight is as currently is. A more complicated rotation to cause even more wipes assuming someone hitting that rotation properly would have the same dps output someone does now with 1 nuke + 1 dot would be an absolute disaster.

[Dyvid]

The more I run Savage, Titan especially, the more I wonder why they didn't give WHM an emergency aoe shield aside from wings.
And that's not me saying wings is weak, but the second we don't have mitigation from another healer or tank we all just die even if at full HP, and it sucks so bad that there's nothing we can do about this.
In a pinch, AST does have two sources of aoe mitigation. Collective and Neutral Sect. I'm not saying WHM needs to turn towards big mitigation, but they said themselves that they wanted to close the gap between pure healers and shield healers. All it seems like to me is the shield healers got more heals and the pure healers got tossed a bone.

I would be nice it they added Protect and Shell as a temp damage reduction spell, say 5s to 10s

[CrimsonGunner]

if i wasnt still casting my dps spells for 90% of my gcds i might agree with you but when most of a healers time is spent doing damage in this game we need our damage spells to be given as much focus by the devs as our healing toolkit

i'm sorry if it sounds rude but healers aren't dps class.we have in our kits damage but that shouldn't be as important as the healing toolkit.
a healer job is to recover/revive/buff the party that are available in his kit.
the healer classes are divided by my view like this:
white mage is healing/regen(old school healer), scholar has heal+shield(and should be a multi-task healer with his pet),astrologist can be either shield or regen oriented before fights +give certain buffs(healer+regen/shield based on demand+buffer).

when a healer doesn't need to heal,he contribute by dps but again i repeat dps is not a healer focus thats not what he needs to do.
the only things that can be argued about dps part of a healer are:
1.the dps skills work fluently with the kit of the class or not.
2.potency issues that may cause serious problems with solo content.

i think its completely wrong to judge a healer based on dps. those part of his kit are there to help him do solo content and during 0 heal moments he can contribute in dps instead or do something else instead.
a healer main job is primary to heal and support the party with his healing kit,damage is a bonus and the kit as a whole should be the decisive factor in choosing a healer in parties.

[tikiwiki]

i'm sorry if it sounds rude but healers aren't dps class.we have in our kits damage but that shouldn't be as important as the healing toolkit.
a healer job is to recover/revive/buff the party that are available in his kit.
the healer classes are divided by my view like this:
white mage is healing/regen(old school healer), scholar has heal+shield(and should be a multi-task healer with his pet),astrologist can be either shield or regen oriented before fights +give certain buffs(healer+regen/shield based on demand+buffer).

when a healer doesn't need to heal,he contribute by dps but again i repeat dps is not a healer focus thats not what he needs to do.
the only things that can be argued about dps part of a healer are:
1.the dps skills work fluently with the kit of the class or not.
2.potency issues that may cause serious problems with solo content.

i think its completely wrong to judge a healer based on dps. those part of his kit are there to help him do solo content and during 0 heal moments he can contribute in dps instead or do something else instead.
a healer main job is primary to heal and support the party with his healing kit,damage is a bonus and the kit as a whole should be the decisive factor in choosing a healer in parties.

great that you feel our dps shouldnt be focused on but the reality is in xiv healers have always spent more time doing dps so we need these parts to be enjoyable or for healing downtime to dramatically decrease but that requires significant reworks

[CrimsonGunner]

Basically, it's same situation as TNKs: all three of them needed to be able to off-tank and main-tank. And, all of the healers need to be able to use both regens and shields

i don't agree with that point of view.
the white mage does miss in mitigation skills(shell and protect were always a white mage first core spells in ff),but shield isn't mitigation its more extra hp.
healers shouldn't be able to do what the other does,otherwise whats the point in different classes.
each class need to be with their own unique kit and be able to do the things they can do.
AST kit allow him to pick which he wants regen/heal before battle(probably a symbol of controlling and guiding fate) but the shield isn't omnipotent skill just absorbs a certain amount damage and i think its even smaller then what scholar grants also if i remember correctly SCH have their share of healing problems(not including that gigantic chaotic mess of a kit they have).
while AST and SCH have shield,it doesn't mean WHM need to be identical to them. WHM kit is more heal oriented,SCH is more shield oriented,AST is more of versatility/replacement.

WHM is(and always will be) the more straightforward healer, AST and SCH play style offer versatility and have more to offer then just shields/regens..
it definitely not mean that WHM suddenly need to be able to spam shield like those two,each class needs to stay true to what defines her and have their own unique take on healing and supporting the party.