So, can we just ban damage meters already.

[Goji1639]

Guess what! The other 3/7/23 people in your run might just be there to have fun aswell and your poor performance might just be whats hurting that right now! The "Its just a game and I'm just here to have fun"-argument is just as bad as "you dont pay my sub!"
Nobody enjoys running dungeons with someone who doesnt care about their performance and the groups-effort either.
Again: I agree that there is no need to be condescending about it, but as already established: That doesnt require a parser and is already reportable.

(...and after that report I'd still consider it a good idea to make the best out of the situation, do a sanity check and see if you're playing your job well or if there was some truth to their claims after all...)

This is a story game that forces participation in dungeons. No, not everyone is going to care about performance. People running story content as dailies are compensated for that, so honestly just suck it up.

[Goji1639]

Honestly I feel you're heavily exaggerating the whole situation, since rarely if ever see these type of people you're complaining about. And saying someone sucks is just a simple statement. Even I've been guilty of it after getting tired of a healer dying over and over again on a simple boss mechanic, even after the entire party spent ten minutes explaining it in detail and me calling out when to use what.

Saying that someone sucks is useless. Explaining the fight and calling out what to use is actually helpful. If the person still isn't getting it then what does telling them they suck accomplish? It makes them feel bad and that's about it; is that what you're going for?

[Vidu]

I don't expect anyone to explain anything to me. I don't mind failing to mechanics and learning by doing, instead of reading some shorthand explanation. If the party gives a crap about me dying, though; well they got the warning that I was new when the dungeon started. They're free to make sure I'm up to speed if they really want to. Don't explain nothing then get pissy and condescending if I die, though.

...the way you're reacting to my simple suggestion of just letting the party know at the start of the dungeon that you're new and would appriciate any advice makes me seriously wonder how well you would react to advice given to you ingame - and wether or not people really tol you that you sucked or if they merely stated that you werent playing very well.

I'd also like to remind you that they dont know that you are new. They know that a character is new - could be any of the other 3 people, could be an alt, could be someone who looked up a guide or someone who would rather not have time wasted by explantions for simple bossfights. I've met all of those people, some being upset and annoyed that someone would even attempt to explain a fight. So offering explantions isnt exactl the go-to move, at least not for me.
If no one says anything, I'll assume and expect that people know what they're doing - if they dont wan need explantions or leeway, they should speak up. Its the polite and sensible thing to do. And not that difficult either...

[MrKusakabe]

This is a story game that forces participation in dungeons. No, not everyone is going to care about performance. People running story content as dailies are compensated for that, so honestly just suck it up.

You talk about roulettes, right? We are compensated for being in that particular dungeon. We are not compensated for dragging you through the thing.



Remembers me to my customers: "You are paid for helping me". I responded once: "No, I am paid for offering goods in self-service - help yourself".


Draw the analogy yourself.




Sincerely,

[Goji1639]

...the way you're reacting to my simple suggestion of just letting the party know at the start of the dungeon that you're new and would appriciate any advice makes me seriously wonder how well you would react to advice given to you ingame - and wether or not people really tol you that you sucked or if they merely stated that you werent playing very well.

I'd also like to remind you that they dont know that you are new. They know that a character is new - could be any of the other 3 people, could be an alt, could be someone who looked up a guide or someone who would rather not have time wasted by explantions for simple bossfights. I've met all of those people, some being upset and annoyed that someone would even attempt to explain a fight. So offering explantions isnt exactl the go-to move, at least not for me.
If no one says anything, I'll assume and expect that people know what they're doing - if they dont wan need explantions or leeway, they should speak up. Its the polite and sensible thing to do. And not that difficult either...

Right, sometimes people don't want an explanation or help, so they won't ask. Sometimes a party doesn't want to explain things, so they don't.

If the party cares about new players dying then they should offer an explanation. If the new person doesn't ask for an explanation and dies then so be it. Where in this scenario is it necessary or acceptable to be condescending to the new person? Is it because he didn't ask for help, even though he may have wanted to go in blind, or because he may be on PS4 and not familiar with macros?

You're approaching this conversation like I'm calling out people who politely offer help. It's been clear as day in my OP and my other posts that those aren't the people that make parsers a problem.

Edit: At my daily post limit I guess.

You shouldnt be harrassed - but seriously, the attitude you're displaying here doesnt help your case.
"I'm new and only care about the story and everyone should magically know that because I refuse to communicate with them" is setting yourself up for failure and wont win you much sympathy.

This is mostly just crap you've made up, and you act like it justifies harassment. Honestly, so what if the new player didn't ask for help; he may not have even wanted it. That's a not a valid point. And honestly, if the content is still EASILY clearable, who cares if they're under-performing? Again, just another flimsy justification for harassing people.

You say it's not right to harass people, but in the same breath throw all these flimsy rationalizations trying to fault the new player for the crappy way many of them are treated. It's dumb.

Also, just to sum up, I'm not really surprised that most of the responses are just people finding ways to justify harassment and blaming the new players for any harassment they receive. After all, not saying "I'm new" at the start of a dungeon is clearly asking for it. The attitude here is disappointingly exactly what I expected. I can tell this community is going to be a lot of fun going forward. Can't wait.

[Vidu]

This is a story game that forces participation in dungeons. No, not everyone is going to care about performance. People running story content as dailies are compensated for that, so honestly just suck it up.

You are coming off as way more toxic than anything you describe in this thread.

The story focus of this game doesnt mean your performance suddenly doesnt matter. A singel player game will kick your butt if you dont care about your performance, gear and proper use of your skills. I recall having to do the Efrye-fight (the red dragon that guards Bevelle) in FF10 four or five times because I was to bad - thankfully the game let me know that by not letting me pass and I had to get better.
In this game you can pass even if you dont have the slightest idea about what you're doing - at the expense of 3/7/23 other people. But that doesnt make it okay.
People are not getting compensated to carry newbies through those MSQ-dungeons. They're getting compensated for running those dungeons with them. And that means that the newbie should contribute to the team-effort in a level appropriate fashion. being new doesnt give you a free pass and even if you only care about the story it doesnt mean that no one else can care about your performance.

You shouldnt be harrassed - but seriously, the attitude you're displaying here doesnt help your case.
"I'm new and only care about the story and everyone should magically know that because I refuse to communicate with them" is setting yourself up for failure and wont win you much sympathy.

[Goji1639]

You talk about roulettes, right? We are compensated for being in that particular dungeon. We are not compensated for dragging you through the thing.



Remembers me to my customers: "You are paid for helping me". I responded once: "No, I am paid for offering goods in self-service - help yourself".


Draw the analogy yourself.




Sincerely,

You get "new player in the party" bonus rewards for anything you run.

[Forever_Learning]

Ask people to carry their weight or telling DPS they aren't doing enough damage and need to do more does not mean you are using "damage meters". Also, it isn't harassment.

False.

There's a large difference between "do you mind using aoe spells for groups?" and "You are so bad, your dps is so low that you should just unsub"

[Vidu]

Right, sometimes people don't want an explanation or help, so they won't ask. Sometimes a part doesn't want to explain things, so they don't.

If the party cares about new players dying then they should offer an explanation. If the new person doesn't ask for an explanation and dies then so be it. Where in this scenario is it necessary or acceptable to be condescending to the new person? Is it because he didn't ask for help, even though he may have wanted to go in blind, or because he may be on PS4 and not familiar with macros?

You're approaching this conversation like I'm calling out people who politely offer help. It's been clear as day in my OP and my other posts that those aren't the people that make parsers a problem.

When did I say that its acceptable to be condescending? I explicitly said that it isnt - I'm merely pointing out that one way you can avoid situations like this is by speaking up yourself instead of waiting for someone else to say something.

And, again: You dont need a parser to call someone out, specially not someone whos lying dead on the ground because they failed a mechanic.

You get "new player in the party" bonus rewards for anything you run.

No, you dont. You only get that reward if someone is actually new, which isnt always the case for the daily roulettes since those are also used by people leveling alt-characters, running them for loot etc.

In addition to that: The "someone is new"-message is easy enough to miss; a little note in party-chat less so.

[Hash_Browns]

OP is coming off way more toxic then anyone I've me in game. Being honest here, if the attitude you gave in this thread was one that I saw in game (the "you don't pay my sub" and "I pLaY fOr FuN" attitude) I would probably just kick you.