So, can we just ban damage meters already.

[Vidu]

Well, in my individual scenario in the OP I think the meter use was pretty obvious. It was a boss fight, I died early and the other DPS made a stink about my damage being lower than the healers, seemingly not even realizing I died. Hard to imagine he was just taking a very strong account of visual cues.

As for all the other random instances I've seen, I suppose it's possible they're not all meter related. The comments are never "you should try doing this," it's always just a stupid little jape about how their damage sucks or they're not contributing, being carried, must've bought their character, etc.

Well, if you died its actually the most obvious scenario of you dealing less damage than the healer, even without a parser running - dead = no damage at all. If you did to a mechanic you could have avoided or dealt with incorrectly, that is on you. Refsuing to communicate with your party makes matters a lot worse, because its even more frustrating for them if they cant be sure if they're playing with a bot or troll or someone who did pay their way to that dungeon right now.

Harrassment is reportable and it would obviously be prefered if everyone just gave friendly advice, but at a certain point that seems to be a joke... I dont know what dunegons you're having in mind but I recently explained to a level 80 RDM in a level 80 dungeon to use their AoE-rotation. And I kinda regret not just silently removing them from the party by now.

[Goji1639]

Well, if you died its actually the most obvious scenario of you dealing less damage than the healer, even without a parser running - dead = no damage at all. If you did to a mechanic you could have avoided or dealt with incorrectly, that is on you. Refsuing to communicate with your party makes matters a lot worse, because its even more frustrating for them if they cant be sure if they're playing with a bot or troll or someone who did pay their way to that dungeon right now.

Harrassment is reportable and it would obviously be prefered if everyone just gave friendly advice, but at a certain point that seems to be a joke... I dont know what dunegons you're having in mind but I recently explained to a level 80 RDM in a level 80 dungeon to use their AoE-rotation. And I kinda regret not just silently removing them from the party by now.

Again, it was like a level 40 something MSQ dungeon and my first run. I died to a mechanic; the boss died anyways; the other DPS decided to get condescending because he saw my damage was lower than the healers.

Specific advice I'm fine with. Just throwing a "you suck" out there I'm not fine with; and I feel like the only reason anyone would even mention damage in a 40 something MSQ dungeon is to insult someone.

[Vidu]

Again, it was like a level 40 something MSQ dungeon and my first run. I died to a mechanic; the boss died anyways; the other DPS decided to get condescending because he saw my damage was lower than the healers.

Specific advice I'm fine with. Just throwing a "you suck" out there I'm not fine with; and I feel like the only reason anyone would even mention damage in a 40 something MSQ dungeon is to insult someone.

Here is specific advice then: Communicate that you're new and would welcome any advice to your party. Dont hide behind "I'm on PS4, I cant chat" and then complain about a community that you're not even engaging in.

You will meet unpleasent people - in Eorzea, in real life, everywhere. But its not parsers that make them unpleasent people and as I pointed out already: You dont even need a parser to point out that someone isnt playing very good. I dont know if that guy had a parser or not but he certainly didnt need one to tell that you died and he could have just as easly gone on about how bad you've been doing for not doing mechanics correctly.
You're seriously targeting the wrong crowd here...

If you're actually looking to improve the run then offer advice. "UR Not carrying ur weight!" is a completely useless thing to throw out there. You know it's useless and you know why you're doing it.

At a certain point someone shouldnt have been told how to play their job anymore. You are responsible for that yourself. I'm sorry if this sounds harsh, but no one should have to explain anything to anyone past level 30. Its nice when people to do, but telling someone that they need to improve, even if you dont (or maybe cant) tell them how to do that should be enough for that person to look into their playstyle.

Personally I've given friendly advice that got ignored or responded to with "you dont pay my sub!!!" so often that I'm trying to refrain from it by now and either finish the run in silence or initiate a vote-kick to remove the person who didnt learn how to play their job after 60+ levels. Those people will never know that they're actually a burden to everyone else - I ask you... is that really better?

[Goji1639]

Here is specific advice then: Communicate that you're new and would welcome any advice to your party. Dont hide behind "I'm on PS4, I cant chat" and then complain about a community that you're not even engaging in.

You will meet unpleasent people - in Eorzea, in real life, everywhere. But its not parsers that make them unpleasent people and as I pointed out already: You dont even need a parser to point out that someone isnt playing very good. I dont know if that guy had a parser or not but he certainly didnt need one to tell that you died and he could have just as easly gone on about how bad you've been doing for not doing mechanics correctly.
You're seriously targeting the wrong crowd here...

The dungeon flags new people for the party, so they don't need anyone's help realizing that someone in the run doesn't know the mechanics. They could explain the mechanics before every boss fight if they really cared, but, especially if the new person is just DPS, they generally just want to move. Me asking for an explanation before every fight would be more annoying than useful in these low level bum rush dungeons.

You seem to be intentionally missing the point. It's clear as day these people aren't doing anything for the "benefit of the run," I don't think I've ever seen a MSQ group wipe. It's just insecure people who like to trash on new players. The new player asking for help isn't going to result in anything good from these people.

[Vidu]

The dungeon flags new people for the party, so they don't need anyone's help realizing that someone in the run doesn't know the mechanics. They could explain the mechanics before every boss fight if they really cared, but, especially if the new person is just DPS, they generally just want to move. Me asking for an explanation before every fight would be more annoying than useful in these low level bum rush dungeons.

You seem to be intentionally missing the point. It's clear as day these people aren't doing anything for the "benefit of the run," I don't think I've ever seen a MSQ group wipe. It's just insecure people who like to trash on new players. The new player asking for help isn't going to result in anything good from these people.

It is simply polite to tell people that you're new and would like them to give you advice. Dont just expect them to spell stuff out for you just because the game informed them that there is a new character in the run, because that can be an alt aswell. Or it might be someone who doesnt want an explantion either for blind running purposes or because they're confident enough that they can figure out mechanics on the go - lets be honest: most dungeon boss fights are super simple.
Your party also wont know if you're running a certain dunegon on a class that you just picked up or havent played in a while.
I'm not advicing you to ask for an explantion before every boss-fight, I'm advicing you to greet your party at the start of the dungeon with "Hey, first time doing this, any pointers would be appericiated!" so they know to actually give them.
In my experience communication with your party is key and can prevent or solve fights.
You expect other people to explain things to you - is it really that unreasonble that someone might expect you to ask for that explantion?

I have seen MSQ-dungeons wipe btw. Often enough even after explantions had been given.

[Goji1639]

It is simply polite to tell people that you're new and would like them to give you advice. Dont just expect them to spell stuff out for you just because the game informed them that there is a new character in the run, because that can be an alt aswell. Or it might be someone who doesnt want an explantion either for blind running purposes or because they're confident enough that they can figure out mechanics on the go - lets be honest: most dungeon boss fights are super simple.
Your party also wont know if you're running a certain dunegon on a class that you just picked up or havent played in a while.
I'm not advicing you to ask for an explantion before every boss-fight, I'm advicing you to greet your party at the start of the dungeon with "Hey, first time doing this, any pointers would be appericiated!" so they know to actually give them.
In my experience communication with your party is key and can prevent or solve fights.
You expect other people to explain things to you - is it really that unreasonble that someone might expect you to ask for that explantion?

I have seen MSQ-dungeons wipe btw. Often enough even after explantions had been given.

Politely announcing you're new and asking for advice is fine. It isn't necessary in low level content, however, and most of the time it'll just be ignored. It does speak volumes about this community that this is where you place the responsibility for mitigating fights. I personally would just prefer veteran players not be uselessly condescending in low level content to new players, but whatever.

I think you know the kinds of veteran players I'm talking about; basically the kinds that insult new players for no serious reason. "Hi, I'm new" isn't going to be what magically turns them into good people.

[Vidu]

Politely announcing you're new and asking for advice is fine. It isn't necessary in low level content, however, and most of the time it'll just be ignored. It does speak volumes about this community that this is where you place the responsibility for mitigating fights. I personally would just prefer veteran players not be uselessly condescending in low level content to new players, but whatever.

I think you know the kinds of veteran players I'm talking about; basically the kinds that insult new players for no serious reason. "Hi, I'm new" isn't going to be what magically turns them into good people.

It is also not necessary for the other people in the run to offer any advice or explantions to you - which you seemed to imply by saying "the ingame message should be enough".
And I dont place the responsibility with the new people, I'm merely pointing out that in my general experience in the game (and in life) you'll run into less fights and less trouble if you're the one getting ahead of it by being polite. I would prefer everyone to communicate in a friendly and polite manner with each other, veterans and newbies alike - that means: no harrassing, but also no "silently sitting around expecting the rest to cater to you".

And obviously this wont when you encounter real jerks - but it might just help when you meet someone whos just having a bad day (we're all allowed to have them) to prevent them from getting snarky and instead being more understanding and maybe even helpful.

[Goji1639]

At a certain point someone shouldnt have been told how to play their job anymore. You are responsible for that yourself. I'm sorry if this sounds harsh, but no one should have to explain anything to anyone past level 30. Its nice when people to do, but telling someone that they need to improve, even if you dont (or maybe cant) tell them how to do that should be enough for that person to look into their playstyle.

If you don't have any useful advice to offer, though, then what was the point of calling the person out? Trying to see if you can make them uncomfortable enough to stop playing the game altogether? Pissy and condescending little comments are useless; if they're all you have to offer then you should probably just not speak.

[Vidu]

If you don't have any useful advice to offer, though, then what was the point of calling the person out? Trying to see if you can make them uncomfortable enough to stop playing the game altogether? Pissy and condescending little comments are useless; if they're all you have to offer then you should probably just not speak.

While its not presented in the best way and I would always encourage people to say things in a neutral tone at the very least - "You should do a bit more research on your job and rotation" for example - it makes them at least aware of the possibility that they're doing things wrong so they can sit down, look up a guide or look at their tooltips, ask around for advice, practise a bit on a dummy and actually improve. Bonus: most jobs are actually way more fun when played correctly!

Its not an ideal way to make someone aware of their shortcomings and it should be reported as harrassment, yes. But anyone who does care about not being carried while probably look into their job and improve afterwards - there are nicer ways of saying it and they should be encouraged over insults. But even those can lead to someone improving, if that person cares about their performance at all.

[Goji1639]

While its not presented in the best way and I would always encourage people to say things in a neutral tone at the very least - "You should do a bit more research on your job and rotation" for example - it makes them at least aware of the possibility that they're doing things wrong so they can sit down, look up a guide or look at their tooltips, ask around for advice, practise a bit on a dummy and actually improve. Bonus: most jobs are actually way more fun when played correctly!

Its not an ideal way to make someone aware of their shortcomings and it should be reported as harrassment, yes. But anyone who does care about not being carried while probably look into their job and improve afterwards - there are nicer ways of saying it and they should be encouraged over insults. But even those can lead to someone improving, if that person cares about their performance at all.

Most people who get into games care about having fun. Some people enjoy the story and do the mandatory dungeons because they're... mandatory. Nobody enjoys having condescending japes thrown at them; even if you do plan to improve and participate in more than the story.

I wouldn't be here if the majority of what I've been seeing people suggesting other players look into better gear or study up a bit. It's pretty much always some variation of "you suck; you're being carried."