Please let PS4 parse our dps like pc

[Granyala]

So this thread got out of hand right quick. People using ToS illegal parse data uploaded to a third party website to discredit another poster. You may not feel like you were 'shaming' him, but the entire point of Yoshi's stance is that you use parse data against another player.
There was no positivity in the reveal of that data. Which is the point.

So umm, dumb question (asked context neutral):
If [Person 1] makes outlandish [claim X] and [Person 2] uses hard data to prove that [claim X] is simply not accurate, how on earth are you going to get "positivity" in terms of feels??

Of course Person 1 will be offended. It has just been publicly revealed that it's claims were bogus.
Person 2 won't feel much better because it's not fun to expose another person like that.

The general community will be better off because [claim X] has been viewed in utter transparency.

If you ask me: people are way to obsessed with "feeling good at all times" these days. No it's not fun getting told "you're doing it wrong". It isn't fun to recognize that you aren't as awesome as you think you are. Trust me I have had many of these moments in both real life and gaming.
It's so easy to live in a bubble and not compare yourself to others but ultimately, seeing yourself for what you truly are is liberating and you can then focus on the weaknesses at hand and make real improvements.
If no one ever dared to speak up, because your feels might be offended... how on earth are you going to realize? How are you supposed to learn effectively?

Also I don’t think it’s fair to say that players that don’t do savage have no need of such a metric, just because the content is easy doesn’t mean players won’t want to do as well as they can

You said it yourself: they do not have the NEED. The content doesn't demand that kind of refined performance to be beaten.
They may very well have the WANT though. Completely understandable.

I have the evil program running in close to every dungeon (I only upload the data for raids though), not because I need it but because I want to see what I am doing.... or not doing.

[Qeilos]

So umm, dumb question (asked context neutral):
If [Person 1] makes outlandish [claim X] and [Person 2] uses hard data to prove that [claim X] is simply not accurate, how on earth are you going to get "positivity" in terms of feels??

Of course Person 1 will be offended. It has just been publicly revealed that it's claims were bogus.
Person 2 won't feel much better because it's not fun to expose another person like that.

The general community will be better off because [claim X] has been viewed in utter transparency.

If you ask me: people are way to obsessed with "feeling good at all times" these days. No it's not fun getting told "you're doing it wrong". It isn't fun to recognize that you aren't as awesome as you think you are. Trust me I have had many of these moments in both real life and gaming.
It's so easy to live in a bubble and not compare yourself to others but ultimately, seeing yourself for what you truly are is liberating and you can then focus on the weaknesses at hand and make real improvements.
If no one ever dared to speak up, because your feels might be offended... how on earth are you going to realize? How are you supposed to learn effectively?



You said it yourself: they do not have the NEED. The content doesn't demand that kind of refined performance to be beaten.
They may very well have the WANT though. Completely understandable.

I have the evil program running in close to every dungeon (I only upload the data for raids though), not because I need it but because I want to see what I am doing.... or not doing.

It wasnt even necessary to call him out. A couple people called him out from things gotten from Lodestone lol. How are Sqenix going to react to their own site being used as a tool for "harassment" lol.

[Granyala]

It wasnt even necessary to call him out. A couple people called him out from things gotten from Lodestone lol. How are Sqenix going to react to their own site being used as a tool for "harassment" lol.

I think the Lodestone analysis came after the parse data, not sure since that mess stretched across two threads.

SE surely won't be happy but I doubt they'll do anything. Achievement shaming or exclusion based on kill achievements is nothing new.
Go try to find a PuG in WoW w/o having the "Ahead of the Curve" achievement of the tier in question.

People that want to be exclusive will find a way to do so. If it aren't your parse values it'll be your achievement history. If it isn't your achievement history it'll be your item level. If it isn't your item level it'll be sth else.

Personally I know enough to stay away from PuGs with outlandish requirements because more often than not, the leaders want to compensate their own incompetence that way.

[Qeilos]

I think the Lodestone analysis came after the parse data, not sure since that mess stretched across two threads.

SE surely won't be happy but I doubt they'll do anything. Achievement shaming or exclusion based on kill achievements is nothing new.
Go try to find a PuG in WoW w/o having the "Ahead of the Curve" achievement of the tier in question.

People that want to be exclusive will find a way to do so. If it aren't your parse values it'll be your achievement history. If it isn't your achievement history it'll be your item level. If it isn't your item level it'll be sth else.

Personally I know enough to stay away from PuGs with outlandish requirements because more often than not, the leaders want to compensate their own incompetence that way.

I know I said that mostly in jest. Just was getting that there was plenty of methods even without fflogs to prove that hes full of air which he disregarded one and all and only quoted the ones that said anything about logs. I get my jimmies rustled by people who do selective arguing like that.

[Sylve]

So umm, dumb question (asked context neutral):
If [Person 1] makes outlandish [claim X] and [Person 2] uses hard data to prove that [claim X] is simply not accurate, how on earth are you going to get "positivity" in terms of feels??

To put it as simplistically as possible, Yoshi-P and his team staunchly believe that this community will use parser data in a negative way against other players.
Right here in this thread, a group of players used parser data in a negative way against another player.

And for what? His forum signature?

And what was achieved? Do those posters who went after his parser data believe they have done some form of good for the community in "exposing" a Healer who doesn't dps as much as they believe he should?
Lets follow that little piece of logic to its logical conclusion.
[Person 1] 'reveals' to the data center that [Person 2] had/has poor dps. [DataCenter community] begins to shun [Person 2] because [Person 1] felt that he was doing the [DataCenter community] a favor by 'ousting' a bad player.
[Person 2] is unaware, but improves themselves in course of their regular play. But now finds a [DataCenter community] hostile towards them and actively blacklisting the 'bad' player.

Congratulations [Person 1], you have used parser data to successfully ostracize a fellow player.

You think i'm making it up? That it'd never happen?
Do you think that, despite watching a group of posters attempt to publicly shame another player using parser data over a forum signature.

That's the kind of community that Yoshi-P doesn't trust to have official parsers.

[HWalsh]

So umm, dumb question (asked context neutral):
If [Person 1] makes outlandish [claim X] and [Person 2] uses hard data to prove that [claim X] is simply not accurate, how on earth are you going to get "positivity" in terms of feels??

How about you act like an adult? Novel concept, I know.

If person one boasts, you don't need to publicly humiliate them. You don't need to objectively prove that they are wrong.

I could, for example, point out that you would fail a grade school level test on your grammar and punctuation.

I could, for example, point out all of your misuses of apostrophes, commas, ellipses, and more.

I could, if I wanted to, insinuate that you lack intelligence and education by pointing out these shortcomings. From those insinuations I could make an accusation against you, based on these hard facts and your own stated reliance on parsers, that you lack the skills and awareness to perform well without extra help.

That would hurt if I did it, wouldn't it?

It would also be factually true, at leased based on the small, but very telling, data we have at hand.

The lesson here?

Simple: The community will be better off if you check your ego at the door.

You could have just said:

"I don't believe your claims regarding your performance. I would recommend that you check your own parsing data to confirm your claim."

You could have left it there.

It makes no sense to humiliate someone over a boast. You stepped over the line kiddo.

[Komarimono]

What we've learned in this thread, lie and boast, get slammed. What we know, this is how the world is. Don't like it, stay in your little safe space and quit trying to lie, and bad things don't happen?

Speaking of which, just fired an employee today who was a consistent liar and performed poorly. They came back after the shift to see if I'd give them another chance, and I politely told them best wishes in finding another job.

So as you can see, when you lie it doesn't help, it just keeps growing and growing and making the person look worse and worse until finally they break or others get tired of them.

[Caitsithhh]

To put it as simplistically as possible, Yoshi-P and his team staunchly believe that this community will use parser data in a negative way against other players.
Right here in this thread, a group of players used parser data in a negative way against another player.

That\\\\'s the kind of community that Yoshi-P doesn\\\\'t trust to have official parsers.

You’re completely uninformed. It’s not over the signature, that’s just the cherry on top... he claimed he was better than 99% of the pc players on a ps4 vs pc forum. He dragged it here by just tossing out that he reports anyone using one. I informed them why he does this. Hard data should ALWAYS be used to back up claims. Always! Also the community doesn’t shame in game but they are sure to on public forums by people who are toxic at the getgo. He was toxic, he was outed, and I stand by all the hard data presented. Nobody ever goes out of their way just to shame a silly signature. Everyone goes out of their way when someone claims to be better than a large portion of the community and not even in a sly way...just outright “I’m better than 99%”. There’s a solid lesson to be taken from this and I’m glad we have the tools to do so. Without these tools it would be bad for the community. There’d be a much slower/smaller raiding scene. Statics would be so unstable. People wouldn’t have the data to improve in the top end. Competitive nature keeps A LOT engaged longer in this game than say the more casual content. Nothing easy feels great to achieve. Most of this is remedied by a single tool, one single tool. Accountability is afforded by this same tool. Without it I do not think the game would last nearly as long. These tools provided goals that aren’t tangible in game but are nonetheless more engaging than most the rewards in the game. Casuals don’t have to like it and don’t have to use it. By those means it’s a bit easier to separate skill levels and link up people of similar skill without telling them to hit a dummy for three minutes and rely on that. Act doesn’t just record dps as I stated. And if you think it’s only used for that then you’re completely uninformed and against something you don’t even understand. There is a word for a group of people like that in this day and age, and it’s not anything nice or defended. Yet you defend your uninformed point of views without even understanding what you’re upset by. It’s 2019...nothing is allowed to be hidden anymore lol

[Sylve]

You’re completely uninformed.

Holy crap dude, line breaks. My eyes are friggen bleeding trying to follow that.

I'm not going to go back through all the vitriol in this thread to find it, But I was referencing a post that called out his signature in which he refers to himself as a top tier healer.

And since the entire hatewagon got started based on his claims of supposedly being better than everyone else, That's the point I drove home. Did the entire thing get started specifically cos someone saw his sig? Probs not. Point is, you claim he said something. You and yours then exploded at him with parse data in order to publicly "oust" his claim.

Know what would have been the mature way to deal with such an individual? Invite them into a run. Have them prove themselves to you, in person that he is indeed as good as he claims.
But no, They went after his parse data and judged him entirely based on that.

What was it that Yoshi-P was against? Oh right. Judging people based on parse data.
Fun fact, he is actually well within his rights under the ToS to report anyone admitting to using a parser. ACT is not legal under the ToS we all signed. It'll then be up to a GM to decide whether or not to action the report or discard it into the 'grey area' Yoshi-P refers to.


You and yours clearly do not understand that you are doing everything Yoshi-P fears the community will do if parsing became official. No matter the reasoning, instead of having him prove in person with you his claims, you did exactly what Yoshi doesn't want to happen.
And thus this thread and the pro-parser people within it have doomed their own efforts because their egos got pricked when a random poster on a forum claimed they were better than them.


Good job, such maturity on display.
PS: I support parsing. Which you would know if you bothered to check all my previous posts in this thread. Parsing itself not a problem. Its what the people do with that information that keeps it from ever being official.

[Typhoria]

People getting emotional in here for no reason. Titania can be killed with a group of nothing but grey (<25 percentile) + green(25-49 percentile) parsers. Titania + Adds have approximately 34 million health combined. Over 11 minutes, an average of 51,515 group DPS is required to beat it, which is a little less than 6500 DPS per person.

The reasoning against parsers because of toxicity is flawed. Just looking at how people are playing is enough to have an estimate on player performance. For example, it's easy to tell if a tank uses cooldowns, if dps are AoEing or just plainly not even pressing buttons. An asshole is going to be toxic regardless of if they have hard evidence to back it up or not.

Different groups have different goals, and other than being civil, you don't have an obligation to the group and the group doesn't have an obligation to you. If someone is harassing you, report them and leave the group.