Please let PS4 parse our dps like pc

[Sylve]

So this thread got out of hand right quick. People using ToS illegal parse data uploaded to a third party website to discredit another poster. You may not feel like you were 'shaming' him, but the entire point of Yoshi's stance is that you use parse data against another player.
There was no positivity in the reveal of that data. Which is the point.


For PS4 players who wish to improve themselves in raiding but do not have access to a trusted friend/PC, I will give you a suggestion.

Use the Duty Recorder.

True improvement comes from understanding the mechanics of a fight and utilizing that understanding to maximize your uptime on a boss.
The Duty Recorder is the closest thing to a parser that SE has ever given us.
Make yourself a party, do a raid run.
Record those runs.
Play them back and watch yourself with intense scrutiny on how you react to every mechanic. Then ask yourself how might you have reduced the impact reacting to that mechanic had on your rotation?
Sometimes. it'll be as simple as realizing you can save Triplecast as a BLM for a specific moment in the fight to keep maximum uptime while being mobile enough to deal with mechanics.

Look up one of the many guides out there for your job. Turn that guide into a muscle memory rotation. If your rotation on a dummy matches what the best guides recommend, Your DPS will be appropriate to your ilvl.
Take that rotation with you into your Duty Recorded playbacks. Are you keeping your rotation up? What prevents you or limits you from maintaining it? Solve the problem. Your DPS improves.

The tools to improve are already in the game, all you have to do is use them. Parsers are great for telling you raw numbers. Not so much for helping you improve at a specific encounter.

[CorbinDallas]

Use the Duty Recorder.

I would if it was usable in more than 2 instances.

[Granyala]

So this thread got out of hand right quick. People using ToS illegal parse data uploaded to a third party website to discredit another poster. You may not feel like you were 'shaming' him, but the entire point of Yoshi's stance is that you use parse data against another player.
There was no positivity in the reveal of that data. Which is the point.

So umm, dumb question (asked context neutral):
If [Person 1] makes outlandish [claim X] and [Person 2] uses hard data to prove that [claim X] is simply not accurate, how on earth are you going to get "positivity" in terms of feels??

Of course Person 1 will be offended. It has just been publicly revealed that it's claims were bogus.
Person 2 won't feel much better because it's not fun to expose another person like that.

The general community will be better off because [claim X] has been viewed in utter transparency.

If you ask me: people are way to obsessed with "feeling good at all times" these days. No it's not fun getting told "you're doing it wrong". It isn't fun to recognize that you aren't as awesome as you think you are. Trust me I have had many of these moments in both real life and gaming.
It's so easy to live in a bubble and not compare yourself to others but ultimately, seeing yourself for what you truly are is liberating and you can then focus on the weaknesses at hand and make real improvements.
If no one ever dared to speak up, because your feels might be offended... how on earth are you going to realize? How are you supposed to learn effectively?

Also I don’t think it’s fair to say that players that don’t do savage have no need of such a metric, just because the content is easy doesn’t mean players won’t want to do as well as they can

You said it yourself: they do not have the NEED. The content doesn't demand that kind of refined performance to be beaten.
They may very well have the WANT though. Completely understandable.

I have the evil program running in close to every dungeon (I only upload the data for raids though), not because I need it but because I want to see what I am doing.... or not doing.

[Qeilos]

So umm, dumb question (asked context neutral):
If [Person 1] makes outlandish [claim X] and [Person 2] uses hard data to prove that [claim X] is simply not accurate, how on earth are you going to get "positivity" in terms of feels??

Of course Person 1 will be offended. It has just been publicly revealed that it's claims were bogus.
Person 2 won't feel much better because it's not fun to expose another person like that.

The general community will be better off because [claim X] has been viewed in utter transparency.

If you ask me: people are way to obsessed with "feeling good at all times" these days. No it's not fun getting told "you're doing it wrong". It isn't fun to recognize that you aren't as awesome as you think you are. Trust me I have had many of these moments in both real life and gaming.
It's so easy to live in a bubble and not compare yourself to others but ultimately, seeing yourself for what you truly are is liberating and you can then focus on the weaknesses at hand and make real improvements.
If no one ever dared to speak up, because your feels might be offended... how on earth are you going to realize? How are you supposed to learn effectively?



You said it yourself: they do not have the NEED. The content doesn't demand that kind of refined performance to be beaten.
They may very well have the WANT though. Completely understandable.

I have the evil program running in close to every dungeon (I only upload the data for raids though), not because I need it but because I want to see what I am doing.... or not doing.

It wasnt even necessary to call him out. A couple people called him out from things gotten from Lodestone lol. How are Sqenix going to react to their own site being used as a tool for "harassment" lol.

[Granyala]

It wasnt even necessary to call him out. A couple people called him out from things gotten from Lodestone lol. How are Sqenix going to react to their own site being used as a tool for "harassment" lol.

I think the Lodestone analysis came after the parse data, not sure since that mess stretched across two threads.

SE surely won't be happy but I doubt they'll do anything. Achievement shaming or exclusion based on kill achievements is nothing new.
Go try to find a PuG in WoW w/o having the "Ahead of the Curve" achievement of the tier in question.

People that want to be exclusive will find a way to do so. If it aren't your parse values it'll be your achievement history. If it isn't your achievement history it'll be your item level. If it isn't your item level it'll be sth else.

Personally I know enough to stay away from PuGs with outlandish requirements because more often than not, the leaders want to compensate their own incompetence that way.

[Qeilos]

I think the Lodestone analysis came after the parse data, not sure since that mess stretched across two threads.

SE surely won't be happy but I doubt they'll do anything. Achievement shaming or exclusion based on kill achievements is nothing new.
Go try to find a PuG in WoW w/o having the "Ahead of the Curve" achievement of the tier in question.

People that want to be exclusive will find a way to do so. If it aren't your parse values it'll be your achievement history. If it isn't your achievement history it'll be your item level. If it isn't your item level it'll be sth else.

Personally I know enough to stay away from PuGs with outlandish requirements because more often than not, the leaders want to compensate their own incompetence that way.

I know I said that mostly in jest. Just was getting that there was plenty of methods even without fflogs to prove that hes full of air which he disregarded one and all and only quoted the ones that said anything about logs. I get my jimmies rustled by people who do selective arguing like that.

[Sylve]

So umm, dumb question (asked context neutral):
If [Person 1] makes outlandish [claim X] and [Person 2] uses hard data to prove that [claim X] is simply not accurate, how on earth are you going to get "positivity" in terms of feels??

To put it as simplistically as possible, Yoshi-P and his team staunchly believe that this community will use parser data in a negative way against other players.
Right here in this thread, a group of players used parser data in a negative way against another player.

And for what? His forum signature?

And what was achieved? Do those posters who went after his parser data believe they have done some form of good for the community in "exposing" a Healer who doesn't dps as much as they believe he should?
Lets follow that little piece of logic to its logical conclusion.
[Person 1] 'reveals' to the data center that [Person 2] had/has poor dps. [DataCenter community] begins to shun [Person 2] because [Person 1] felt that he was doing the [DataCenter community] a favor by 'ousting' a bad player.
[Person 2] is unaware, but improves themselves in course of their regular play. But now finds a [DataCenter community] hostile towards them and actively blacklisting the 'bad' player.

Congratulations [Person 1], you have used parser data to successfully ostracize a fellow player.

You think i'm making it up? That it'd never happen?
Do you think that, despite watching a group of posters attempt to publicly shame another player using parser data over a forum signature.

That's the kind of community that Yoshi-P doesn't trust to have official parsers.

[Granyala]

You think i'm making it up? That it'd never happen?
Do you think that, despite watching a group of posters attempt to publicly shame another player using parser data over a forum signature.

As far as I know the signature wasn't the issue. It was the direct statement that he was better than 99% of the PC players he encountered.
People had no interest in his performance before that. They merely looked him up BECAUSE he made that absurd claim.

Parses were just the quickest and easiest way to disprove him, as you can see other people used his Lodestone profile to do the exact same thing.

As for "the data center" being hostile towards weaker players: if that was truly the case, no weak player would ever find a PuG group in WoW because wow has official parsers. That's not the case at all. It typically goes like this (unreasonable groups excluded): you have the gear, you get invited. When you wipe your performance is assessed. If you are found lacking after multiple tries -> you get kicked.

Seems fair to me.

If person one boasts, you don't need to publicly humiliate them. You don't need to objectively prove that they are wrong.

I could, for example, point out that you would fail a grade school level test on your grammar and punctuation.
I could, for example, point out all of your misuses of apostrophes, commas, ellipses, and more.

I could, if I wanted to, insinuate that you lack intelligence and education by pointing out these shortcomings. From those insinuations I could make an accusation against you, based on these hard facts and your own stated reliance on parsers, that you lack the skills and awareness to perform well without extra help.

Why not? If I boast w/o having the performance to back it up I have to consider the possibility of being called out on it. Simple cause and effect.

Yup, that's why I am not a native English speaker. My education was enough to study engineering. Not much, I know but it has been fun.

I already openly admitted that in another thread. I cannot remember everything that I did in a 12m bossfight, I don't catch every error in play straight away, which is why I find parsers helpful.

No it doesn't hurt one bit, you know why?

Because I am an adult, know my limits and am not ashamed of them. I don't have to create a bubble pretending I am sth. that I am not in order to invoke "happy feels".

[Komarimono]

As far as I know the signature wasn't the issue. It was the direct statement that he was better than 99% of the PC players he encountered.
People had no interest in his performance before that. They merely looked him up BECAUSE he made that absurd claim.

Parses were just the quickest and easiest way to disprove him, as you can see other people used his Lodestone profile to do the exact same thing.

As for "the data center" being hostile towards weaker players: if that was truly the case, no weak player would ever find a PuG group in WoW because wow has official parsers. That's not the case at all. It typically goes like this (unreasonable groups excluded): you have the gear, you get invited. When you wipe your performance is assessed. If you are found lacking after multiple tries -> you get kicked.

Seems fair to me.



Why not? If I boast w/o having the performance to back it up I have to consider the possibility of being called out on it. Simple cause and effect.

Yup, that's why I am not a native English speaker. My education was enough to study engineering. Not much, I know but it has been fun.

I already openly admitted that in another thread. I cannot remember everything that I did in a 12m bossfight, I don't catch every error in play straight away, which is why I find parsers helpful.

No it doesn't hurt one bit, you know why?

Because I am an adult, know my limits and am not ashamed of them. I don't have to create a bubble pretending I am sth. that I am not in order to invoke "happy feels".

Pretty much this. It started when a few of us asked if they could provide proof of their claims, since a well made and even affordably cheap PC will have better performance then a console, hence why I switched to PC from console since the 50 and under FPS of a PS4 Pro felt weird to me. Getting near 200 unsynced and 144 sync was a much smoother experience for me. Which can lead to better player interactions in the game itself.

You can just look in their post history, not that hard to see it there.

[HWalsh]

As far as I know the signature wasn't the issue. It was the direct statement that he was better than 99% of the PC players he encountered.
People had no interest in his performance before that. They merely looked him up BECAUSE he made that absurd claim.

Parses were just the quickest and easiest way to disprove him, as you can see other people used his Lodestone profile to do the exact same thing.

As for "the data center" being hostile towards weaker players: if that was truly the case, no weak player would ever find a PuG group in WoW because wow has official parsers. That's not the case at all. It typically goes like this (unreasonable groups excluded): you have the gear, you get invited. When you wipe your performance is assessed. If you are found lacking after multiple tries -> you get kicked.

Seems fair to me.



Why not? If I boast w/o having the performance to back it up I have to consider the possibility of being called out on it. Simple cause and effect.

Yup, that's why I am not a native English speaker. My education was enough to study engineering. Not much, I know but it has been fun.

I already openly admitted that in another thread. I cannot remember everything that I did in a 12m bossfight, I don't catch every error in play straight away, which is why I find parsers helpful.

No it doesn't hurt one bit, you know why?

Because I am an adult, know my limits and am not ashamed of them. I don't have to create a bubble pretending I am sth. that I am not in order to invoke "happy feels".

You missed the point.

My entire post was there to pick your post apart and point out conclusions from one post. Which is what you did on his parse. You took a small isolated sample and made a hypothetical argument that the person lied.

Those could be bad parses.
There could be extenuating circumstances.
He could have only run into really bad players.

I mean, yesterday I was tanking a dungeon and our healer had to keep reminding the DPS to not stand in front of the boss that I was turning AWAY from them for a reason.

The DPS both died, then teleported away rather than wait for a res, and the healer and I had to finish the fight ourselves.

There are VERY bad players out there.

And "Better than 99%" could mean DPS, Healing, or simply avoiding mechanics.

Your biggest complaint seemed to be that he was over healing. Dude, I'd rather be over healed than under healed.

Basically, that parse doesn't tell anyone anything other than the fact that you're the exact reason people don't want parsers. You can and DID use a parser to try to humiliate someone.

You ARE the problem.