Please let PS4 parse our dps like pc

[Demetri_Delethorn]

Completely agreed.

Also I call BS on the claim that FPS beyond 60 make much of a difference considering the internet latency and most importantly SE's crappy netcode latency are several orders of magnitude higher than frame latency of the screen. I've played WoW with some pretty crappy FPS. And by crappy I mean REALLY CRAPPY like 5 FPS and lower.
I still managed to give a decent performance and kill the boss (though it certainly wasn't fun). PS4 is nowhere near that bad.

Especially if you dole out for a Pro. PS5 should handle things even better, of course. Anywhere else on the internet talking about this game, I see latency being spoken of as a hindering factor in gameplay (which actually makes sense). I only see the FPS trolls around these lawless parts.

[Komarimono]

Completely agreed.

Also I call BS on the claim that FPS beyond 60 make much of a difference considering the internet latency and most importantly SE's crappy netcode latency are several orders of magnitude higher than frame latency of the screen. I've played WoW with some pretty crappy FPS. And by crappy I mean REALLY CRAPPY like 5 FPS and lower.
I still managed to give a decent performance and kill the boss (though it certainly wasn't fun). PS4 is nowhere near that bad.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tV8P6T5tTYs

It's a myth that we don't notice or feel a difference in FPS. If FPS didn't matter, even consoles wouldn't be trying to at least hit 60.

People saying they don't get a potential boost to performance from better hardware and FPS etc, are woefully ignorant. Linus has covered it many times, this being his most recent and he is quite reputable as he tests and shows. There's also several scientific studies, showing the eye isn't limited to a certain FPS. Remember when people said there was no difference between 30 and 60 FPS? Ya, it's that all over again, and they were wrong last time too.

I'm not saying console is unplayable though, far from it. I was just clarifying that on a decent PC you have much much more potential to see and respond to things far faster then someone running a lower FPS, and that is all I've ever said.

But alas, not part of this threads topic, but felt it needed to be cleared up.

As for parsers, I still stand they have high benefits that outweigh the cons. But this is my opinion at the least from raiding in other games. I don't feel they are elitist, but have seen them weed out those who cannot perform, and also check how encounters played out mathematically to see where the group went wrong.

[Granyala]

Because games are played by the under age (and not only under age) kids that could and will use it against other people to harrass them over their poor performance, like it does happen in WoW.
This is one of the reasons, the other one is SE made this game casual friendly.

There is a simple solution to that: do not deliver a poor performance. Come on, this is a video game. It's not exactly rocket science.
You want to do savage/Ex, you need to have the proper numbers to kill them anyway.

As for dungeons: it's super rare that people even bother to look at parses b/c stuff dies anyway.

It's a myth that we don't notice or feel a difference in FPS. If FPS didn't matter, even consoles wouldn't be trying to at least hit 60.

I never stated that you do not feel the difference. I certainly can't play any game below 60FPS anymore, going into places like Eulmore where 60FPS is virtually impossible due to single threaded coding limitations annoys me enough as it is.

What I am arguing against is that it has a profound impact on a players output. That is simply not true. This is an MMO with a long GCD not a twitchy shooter. We generally only perform one action every few seconds.

There is more to a community than optimization guides, people telling you to get gud, or parser help.
Don't you get that?
That's not what an MMORPG is about.
That's the exact kind of thinking that has ruined the genre.

Uuh apart from role play (which I happen to like but is super rare to actually encounter) and maybe crafting/market what else is there left to form a community about?
Questing? Freeloot dungeons (deliberately neutered so "speshil snowflakes" can clear them too)?

No, the majority of the time spent is in endgame and the majority of community interactions revolve around how to defeat tough bosses.
You don't need a "community" in order to tackle FFs 24man raids. Randomly thrown together groups clearing them with ease proves that.

I feel no pang of guilt at all have a AMD 2990WX or a RTX 2080Ti. The setup performs better per cost vs a Workstation Setup that uses a Quadro for my work use. It was only a 2-3 months of saving up at the time anyway, so not that big a deal honestly.

Dang I'd love to have your disposable income.
A 2080Ti would eat away a years worth of saving for me. :X

[Nedkel]

There is a simple solution to that: do not deliver a poor performance. Come on, this is a video game. It's not exactly rocket science.
You want to do savage/Ex, you need to have the proper numbers to kill them anyway.

As for dungeons: it's super rare that people even bother to look at parses b/c stuff dies anyway.

And what if you enter into new content undergeared, with new skillset, and you dont have time to play the game and start doing new stuff a week or few after release? Should you still "get gut or get out"? You basically spoiled your logs for doing so, you will have to wait for the next patch for it to reset and not being judged over your "poor performance".

Thats why there is no parses in this game.

Tell about dungeons, in WoW i was being kicked a lot for my "poor performance", and there are countless of cases where it is a thing in WoW, people look at logs of someone often decide who they want in the team. We are still talking about normalizing parses as a official tool in this game, just look at games where it is a thing a compare it to FFXIV, its an earth and sky difference.

[HWalsh]

Uuh apart from role play (which I happen to like but is super rare to actually encounter) and maybe crafting/market what else is there left to form a community about?
Questing? Freeloot dungeons (deliberately neutered so "speshil snowflakes" can clear them too)?

No, the majority of the time spent is in endgame and the majority of community interactions revolve around how to defeat tough bosses.
You don't need a "community" in order to tackle FFs 24man raids. Randomly thrown together groups clearing them with ease proves that.

Community is about community.

Yes, roleplaying is a key element to an MMORPG, but community doesn't need to be about dur hur "Optimization" and "Raiding."

Back in the day we had events, we had almost an extended family

One event that we used to do in DAOC was the Market Day, when crafters would gather and, for free, churn out gear and items. No "give me 2,000,000 gil."

We could organize that here, gatherers could gather a bunch of mats, crafters could craft en masse, we could get to know each other.

We could organize a mass fate clear across the server to help especially low level characters who, more often than not, have to tack these things alone.

We could encourage open world roleplay by (gasp) roleplaying.

Heck, we could even organize events to promote charities or social awareness.

There are TONS of things a community can do other than raid and optimize.

[Eriane_Elis]

Officially supporting parsing would only create a saltier end-game community. Third party parsers are against the ToS and are acceptable only if you use but don't tell. If you tell someone their DPS is low, then you can get in hot water with a GM. Use at your own risk.

[Demetri_Delethorn]

Hoo boy, one of them showed up. Oh well. Seeing someone perpetuating the myth that framerate is going to give you an advantage in this game isn't going to change reality, so it's likely best to stay quiet and on-topic. We'll see if they can do the same. Although your typical "muh mustard race" always has to try to justify the big spending.

Like, for gods' sake, nobody in here said you can't see the difference between 30 and 60 fps. Obviously you can. What a strange thing to bring up in this thread.

[Komarimono]

Hoo boy, one of them showed up. Oh well. Seeing someone perpetuating the myth that framerate is going to give you an advantage in this game isn't going to change reality, so it's likely best to stay quiet and on-topic. We'll see if they can do the same. Although your typical "muh mustard race" always has to try to justify the big spending.

Like, for gods' sake, nobody in here said you can't see the difference between 30 and 60 fps. Obviously you can. What a strange thing to bring up in this thread.

No one is trying to justify anything. I am just correcting fallacies, so that way others are not misinformed. I prefer facts and truth to misinformation or worse straight up lies that some have posted previously, some if I am honest, being you in other threads and this one.

I feel no pang of guilt at all have a AMD 2990WX or a RTX 2080Ti. The setup performs better per cost vs a Workstation Setup that uses a Quadro for my work use. It was only a 2-3 months of saving up at the time anyway, so not that big a deal honestly.

[Demetri_Delethorn]

No one is trying to justify anything. I am just correcting fallacies, so that way others are not misinformed. I prefer facts and truth to misinformation or worse straight up lies that some have posted previously, some if I am honest, being you in other threads and this one.

I feel no pang of guilt at all have a AMD 2990WX or a RTX 2080Ti. The setup performs better per cost vs a Workstation Setup that uses a Quadro for my work use. It was only a 2-3 months of saving up at the time anyway, so not that big a deal honestly.

Neat. I'm not the one spreading lies, though 60fps vs 30fps? Give me 60 any day, absolutely. That's why I play on a Pro rather than base. Base PS4 models hae some issues in cities, but even they perform just fine in raids/dungeons where it counts. Are PS4s at a disadvantage in this game? Nope. Sorry if your opinion differs.

[Avidria]

Because games are played by the under age (and not only under age) kids that could and will use it against other people to harrass them over their poor performance, like it does happen in WoW.
This is one of the reasons, the other one is SE made this game casual friendly.



I am not the WoW historian, i could tell what my experiences were with WoW, because i never had a chance to play it due to the fact of where i came from. One thing i could say is that, it was bloody awful, the percent of players using parsers in that game is really high comparing to other games, and the moment someone finds out you are bad in the logs, its the moment where you are being kicked from dungeon.
You wont see new players going to play WoW, not people returning to it after being discouraged by toxicity.
It takes few bad apples to destroy a whole batch, and those bad apples are driving away people from the game, more and more, playerbase going downhill because there is no influx of new people playing the game.
Bad decision making from blizzard is one part why that game is in bad shape, but community is not without fault, they were being listen to by blizzard employees more than we do here.

I played wow for more than ten years, and the vast majority of the times I saw people getting kicked for bad dps is if bad actually meant so abysmal that everything was taking 5x longer than it should to die, or if we were consistently hitting enrages. The other most frequent times were in mythic raids, for people who were consistently underperforming and failed to improve even when given advice/support/guides/the tools that they could have used to do so.

Sure, you had your bratty dps spam linking their meter after every single trash pull (always thought those were absolutely hilarious tbh... scaling has been so broken at low levels in so many different ways that I used to blow every dps and tank out of the water as a *monk healer* back in MoP)... but in my experienced it was either used as a tool for self improvement, used to kick people who were genuinely causing problems, or just. There. And not even mentioned at all in most group content, outside the odd time of somebody asking to see how they're doing. I saw gearscore/ilvl/whatever variation, and whatever that m+ tracker thing was, as gatekeeping tools that were way more problematic than parsing tbh. In my own experiences, the neutral outweighed good or bad, and the truly bad was usually either laugh worthy or from miserable people to begin with in most cases.

Granted I stopped playing not too far into the current expansion, so maybe it's taken an even deeper nosedive than the one Blizz has been driving it toward since then. I'm genuinely sorry you had such a bad experience, though, because as frustrated and disappointed as I am with it now, I can honestly say it's still one of my favorite games I've ever played.