Almost every complaint about the ShB job changes could be solved with talents

[reyre]

Hey, not really a "talent tree" but Ragnarok Online has great build variety with lots of player choices and builds created by the sheer creativity of the playerbase, completely different from this game. Some builds may be very OP, while others may only be used because they're interesting or have very specific uses, like a build focused on killing undeads or a support songs/dances focused build. Also Guild Wars 1 had an extremely wide build variety.

Really, just think about it, playing a tabletop RPG, would you prefer if everybody got a sheet that was already filled with everyone's stats and skill choices or would you prefer to fill it yourself? I don't remember any RPGs I played where there wasn't any choices to be made in regards to how I play. In pokémon you can choose your skills, even if some are bad; in FF7 you can choose your materia, even if some are bad; in FFT you can build either very OP comps or totally underpowered comps, but that's the beauty of having choices, you can tailor the experience to your liking.

Now, I'm not really defending a talent tree for FFXIV, because I don't really believe they have the competence necessary to do it.

While those are some good examples, lets concentrate on the MMO simply because the single player experience makes player agency a bit different. Which is why i asked for MMOs, while there is much to be drawn from them by that same token i could say SMT nocturne, Persona (1-5), FFX, FFIX,FFXIII, ME, DDS, Hollow knight, paper mario, dead cells, The Tales Series in general....etc, and in those games the talent tree is vastly different in nocturne you have to choose what skills to take kind of like pokemon, just without the ability to ever see them again, in HK the amulet interaction is great and can make the shade night immortal, however MMOs have to handle a lot more because of the nature of the type of game.

So ragnarok i do rember palying that game and being a mnk (shockingly so), but the game is kind of build for that creativity, if we were to apply some form of it in ff14, i guess you could end up with eureka which is not fun, at least in its current iteration, other than that is just that this game doesnt have types of enemies, damage so that on its own limits what can be done, either be a dmg skill or a utility skill. Or so it sems to me.