Tank entitlement vs group entitlement

[Derio]

In a 4 man situation the tank always sets the pace as the tank sets the pace based off their own skill and after the initial pull.

In any 4 man dungeon you can determine the quality of dps and the quality of heals. If the quality is low the tank will change the pace and vice versa. But ultimately if the tank is pulling one set at a time. Good dps and a good healer, it does not matter the dungeon will still get cleared in a decent time.

[Nethereal]

Unless you're in squadrons it's completely a group effort. Majority rules when in subjective areas, regardless of class.

[Nonuel]

I suppose the part we all disagree on is which half is the uncooperative half: the half that has trouble meeting the group's expectations, or the exasperated group trying to push for better-than-npc play but getting stonewalled because "you don't pay my sub."

Honestly, oftentimes it doesn't really matter who kicks who-- it's just important that a kick happens to separate the two halves. I honestly don't understand why someone would tolerate a party where people aren't getting along; I happily push to kick anyone causing trouble or issuing threats. Whether or not I'm the target of those threats.

Heck, long ago in a sprout fc I was healing a sprout tank through Fractal and someone didn't like the way he was tanking. They threatened to kick him, so I simply beat him to the punch by votekicking the threatener instead. He went away and we had a grand time after that.

I wonder why any other game I can think of does it the way I believe is fair, requiring 3 players to kick someone? Only FFXIV...

[Aramina]

I wonder why any other game I can think of does it the way I believe is fair, requiring 3 players to kick someone? Only FFXIV...

4 person group vs 5 person group.

[Nonuel]

4 person group vs 5 person group.

Where? ESO needs 3 to kick someone in a party of 4, as did Left 4 Dead, Mass Effect... which game are you talking about? Because I'm referring to games that also have 4 players that require a true party majority to kick someone.

[cicatriz313]

Where? ESO needs 3 to kick someone in a party of 4, as did Left 4 Dead, Mass Effect... which game are you talking about? Because I'm referring to games that also have 4 players that require a true party majority to kick someone.

Lol you're voting to kick someone, that leaves 3 people, 2 people out of 3 people is a majority no matter how you look at it. Of course the person being voted on doesn't get a vote, they're the one doing whatever is causing the vote to occur, that'd be silly. IF other games that have 4 player parties require all 3 extras to kick someone, that's just a different system looking for unanimous vote rather than majority.

[Nonuel]

Lol you're voting to kick someone, that leaves 3 people, 2 people out of 3 people is a majority no matter how you look at it. Of course the person being voted on doesn't get a vote, they're the one doing whatever is causing the vote to occur, that'd be silly. IF other games that have 4 player parties require all 3 extras to kick someone, that's just a different system looking for unanimous vote rather than majority.

FFXIV does it differently than any other game I can think of, and I think it's unfair to not even value the person being voted on as having a say.
But that's FFXIV's poor system, so whatever.

What would be so scary about requiring 3 votes? If the person deserves a kick they will be voted out unanimously.

[Physic]

Lol you're voting to kick someone, that leaves 3 people, 2 people out of 3 people is a majority no matter how you look at it. Of course the person being voted on doesn't get a vote, they're the one doing whatever is causing the vote to occur, that'd be silly. IF other games that have 4 player parties require all 3 extras to kick someone, that's just a different system looking for unanimous vote rather than majority.

not really because you are voting on team strategy here. If half wants slow pulls and half want fast pulls, 2 is not a majority opinion.

based on a two man rule, whoever initiates a kick against an opposing view point first has an advantage, because thier opponents viewpoint is not counted.

If you believe in two man kicks, you are implying initiating a kick first some how means your opinion is more valid than the person you are kicking.

[Awha]

FFXIV does it differently than any other game I can think of, and I think it's unfair to not even value the person being voted on as having a say.
But that's FFXIV's poor system, so whatever.

What would be so scary about requiring 3 votes? If the person deserves a kick they will be voted out unanimously.

No system is perfect, each one can be abused. SE went with a majority you can view it as unfair, but that is the reality of our vote system in FFXIV. Though I will say I find it interesting SE went with the majority system if they view DF as something that is meant for the bare minimum to progress through content. If they either went with unanimous, or factoring in the vote of the person being kicked either one of those systems would work if that is truly their goal.

[cicatriz313]

not really because you are voting on team strategy here. If half wants slow pulls and half want fast pulls, 2 is not a majority opinion.

based on a two man rule, whoever initiates a kick against an opposing view point first has an advantage, because thier opponents viewpoint is not counted.

If you believe in two man kicks, you are implying initiating a kick first some how means your opinion is more valid than the person you are kicking.

I was talking more like kicking someone for being a butt or something, but yeah I guess in the case of single vs large pulls it would be even. But I mean, it's only 4 people, requiring all 3 people to agree with something I think is too high a hurdle, at least in my opinion. I would be interested in what they require for 8 mans.

FFXIV does it differently than any other game I can think of, and I think it's unfair to not even value the person being voted on as having a say.
But that's FFXIV's poor system, so whatever.

What would be so scary about requiring 3 votes? If the person deserves a kick they will be voted out unanimously.

I never said anything was "scary", I was saying it is how it is, and it would be majority rule.