Tank entitlement vs group entitlement

[Nonuel]

I suppose the part we all disagree on is which half is the uncooperative half: the half that has trouble meeting the group's expectations, or the exasperated group trying to push for better-than-npc play but getting stonewalled because "you don't pay my sub."

Honestly, oftentimes it doesn't really matter who kicks who-- it's just important that a kick happens to separate the two halves. I honestly don't understand why someone would tolerate a party where people aren't getting along; I happily push to kick anyone causing trouble or issuing threats. Whether or not I'm the target of those threats.

Heck, long ago in a sprout fc I was healing a sprout tank through Fractal and someone didn't like the way he was tanking. They threatened to kick him, so I simply beat him to the punch by votekicking the threatener instead. He went away and we had a grand time after that.

I wonder why any other game I can think of does it the way I believe is fair, requiring 3 players to kick someone? Only FFXIV...

[Aramina]

I wonder why any other game I can think of does it the way I believe is fair, requiring 3 players to kick someone? Only FFXIV...

4 person group vs 5 person group.

[Nonuel]

4 person group vs 5 person group.

Where? ESO needs 3 to kick someone in a party of 4, as did Left 4 Dead, Mass Effect... which game are you talking about? Because I'm referring to games that also have 4 players that require a true party majority to kick someone.

[cicatriz313]

Where? ESO needs 3 to kick someone in a party of 4, as did Left 4 Dead, Mass Effect... which game are you talking about? Because I'm referring to games that also have 4 players that require a true party majority to kick someone.

Lol you're voting to kick someone, that leaves 3 people, 2 people out of 3 people is a majority no matter how you look at it. Of course the person being voted on doesn't get a vote, they're the one doing whatever is causing the vote to occur, that'd be silly. IF other games that have 4 player parties require all 3 extras to kick someone, that's just a different system looking for unanimous vote rather than majority.

[Nonuel]

Lol you're voting to kick someone, that leaves 3 people, 2 people out of 3 people is a majority no matter how you look at it. Of course the person being voted on doesn't get a vote, they're the one doing whatever is causing the vote to occur, that'd be silly. IF other games that have 4 player parties require all 3 extras to kick someone, that's just a different system looking for unanimous vote rather than majority.

FFXIV does it differently than any other game I can think of, and I think it's unfair to not even value the person being voted on as having a say.
But that's FFXIV's poor system, so whatever.

What would be so scary about requiring 3 votes? If the person deserves a kick they will be voted out unanimously.

[Awha]

FFXIV does it differently than any other game I can think of, and I think it's unfair to not even value the person being voted on as having a say.
But that's FFXIV's poor system, so whatever.

What would be so scary about requiring 3 votes? If the person deserves a kick they will be voted out unanimously.

No system is perfect, each one can be abused. SE went with a majority you can view it as unfair, but that is the reality of our vote system in FFXIV. Though I will say I find it interesting SE went with the majority system if they view DF as something that is meant for the bare minimum to progress through content. If they either went with unanimous, or factoring in the vote of the person being kicked either one of those systems would work if that is truly their goal.

[Physic]

No system is perfect, each one can be abused. SE went with a majority you can view it as unfair, but that is the reality of our vote system in FFXIV. Though I will say I find it interesting SE went with the majority system if they view DF as something that is meant for the bare minimum to progress through content. If they either went with unanimous, or factoring in the vote of the person being kicked either one of those systems would work if that is truly their goal.

its not actually a majority when it comes to playstyle.

they didnt actually initially intend playstyle to be a valid consideration. They created the categories for a legit kick, and warned people kicking incorrectly is actionable.

afk/offline/harrassment, these are the things that a confirmation is generally good enough. Playstyle though, doesnt really fit the tool's use. If 50% of the party believes one thing and 50% believes the other, the first to initiate a kick wins, not the majority opinion.

also, you seem to think SE always chooses the best implementation, they adapt and alter based on new info/desire/etc so, conversations are not just going to be based on whats there now, but also on what people think it should be as well. SE of course makes the final deciscion.

[Physic]

Lol you're voting to kick someone, that leaves 3 people, 2 people out of 3 people is a majority no matter how you look at it. Of course the person being voted on doesn't get a vote, they're the one doing whatever is causing the vote to occur, that'd be silly. IF other games that have 4 player parties require all 3 extras to kick someone, that's just a different system looking for unanimous vote rather than majority.

not really because you are voting on team strategy here. If half wants slow pulls and half want fast pulls, 2 is not a majority opinion.

based on a two man rule, whoever initiates a kick against an opposing view point first has an advantage, because thier opponents viewpoint is not counted.

If you believe in two man kicks, you are implying initiating a kick first some how means your opinion is more valid than the person you are kicking.

[cicatriz313]

not really because you are voting on team strategy here. If half wants slow pulls and half want fast pulls, 2 is not a majority opinion.

based on a two man rule, whoever initiates a kick against an opposing view point first has an advantage, because thier opponents viewpoint is not counted.

If you believe in two man kicks, you are implying initiating a kick first some how means your opinion is more valid than the person you are kicking.

I was talking more like kicking someone for being a butt or something, but yeah I guess in the case of single vs large pulls it would be even. But I mean, it's only 4 people, requiring all 3 people to agree with something I think is too high a hurdle, at least in my opinion. I would be interested in what they require for 8 mans.

FFXIV does it differently than any other game I can think of, and I think it's unfair to not even value the person being voted on as having a say.
But that's FFXIV's poor system, so whatever.

What would be so scary about requiring 3 votes? If the person deserves a kick they will be voted out unanimously.

I never said anything was "scary", I was saying it is how it is, and it would be majority rule.

[Physic]

I was talking more like kicking someone for being a butt or something, but yeah I guess in the case of single vs large pulls it would be even. But I mean, it's only 4 people, requiring all 3 people to agree with something I think is too high a hurdle, at least in my opinion. I would be interested in what they require for 8 mans.



I never said anything was "scary", I was saying it is how it is, and it would be majority rule.

The kick system is designed for dealing with problem players

if they want a conflict resolution, or go seperate ways system....

i would create a vote break system, which can only happen after a certain amount of progress has been made. where its a yes/no question. If its 50/50 party is dissolved, and each side gets half of whatever they would get for completion bonus. if its 3/1 the 3 keep the instance and the 1 gets half of whatever the completion bonus is.

for 1 per day rewards, the total exp/tomestones, whatever cant go over the 1 day totals.


of course thats way more complicated, and i doubt they would do it, but it would be a better tool for disagreements of opinion as opposed to removal of problem players.

and, since the player gets something out of it, its not like you are being harshly punished, just for a disagreement.