Tank entitlement vs group entitlement

[Mavrias]

Well a dps refusing to aoe on multiple mobs is failing at their role imo. They were given aoe skills for reason. Same goes with the ice mage thing you see pop up here and there. I won’t defend that example. There are legitimate uses of vote kick. So if the team kicked there I have no problem with that, but at the same time if my aoe downed the mobs fast enough anyway I don’t know that I would personally start the kick. But I would blacklist.

why are they failing at their role? theyre doing dps just not the kind the party wants. according to others in this thread (not sure if you were one of them but it bears mentioning nonetheless) just doing dps is okay regardless of whether it fits the situation or not. ice mages and things included.

[Feidam]

why are they failing at their role? theyre doing dps just not the kind the party wants. according to others in this thread (not sure if you were one of them but it bears mentioning nonetheless) just doing dps is okay regardless of whether it fits the situation or not. ice mages and things included.

Wasn’t me. You need to be able to fulfill your basic role. The dps needs to apply the right dps to the situation and meet the dps checks. Healers need to be able to heal and tanks hold threat and position. i did say small pulls are fulfilling basic tank role though since steady pulling of small pulls still effectively clears the dungeon just less efficiently. You could argue that dps not using aoe it are just being less efficient but at the same time when your role is burn down the mobs quickly not using aoe is is so far in the other direction that arguing it’s ok to not aoe makes one wonder why play dps.

[Nonuel]

thats not actually a majority.

2/4 players deciding how to play the dungeon is not a majority.

its only a majority if you exclude the person being kicked, which actually doesnt make sense, if the goal is democracy. Its a crappy tool for deciding playstyle since it doesnt solve a situation where half the people are in agreement.

It also means kicking first is the best strategy to make sure you dont get kicked, and get to keep the instance, if you have a deadlock.

party is at 50%? initiate a vote kick before they do, and then you will be 3/4 and the last guy becomes a minority vote.

I agree. Fairness would be; the uncooperative half should have to leave before being able to remove the other. I can't think of any other game that doesn't value the player being voted on. Even Left 4 Dead required 3 votes to kick someone.

[kidalutz]

Two Things

One: Is this still going on Yeesh.

Two:It's gotten way off the initial topic.

[Awha]

Two Things

One: Is this still going on Yeesh.

Two:It's gotten way off the initial topic.

It has interesting though I must say I am shocked it has gone on for so long. Maybe it is a sign that SE needs to clarify their stance on difference of playstyle.

[van_arn]

I agree. Fairness would be; the uncooperative half should have to leave before being able to remove the other. I can't think of any other game that doesn't value the player being voted on. Even Left 4 Dead required 3 votes to kick someone.

I suppose the part we all disagree on is which half is the uncooperative half: the half that has trouble meeting the group's expectations, or the exasperated group trying to push for better-than-npc play but getting stonewalled because "you don't pay my sub."

Honestly, oftentimes it doesn't really matter who kicks who-- it's just important that a kick happens to separate the two halves. I honestly don't understand why someone would tolerate a party where people aren't getting along; I happily push to kick anyone causing trouble or issuing threats. Whether or not I'm the target of those threats.

Heck, long ago in a sprout fc I was healing a sprout tank through Fractal and someone didn't like the way he was tanking. They threatened to kick him, so I simply beat him to the punch by votekicking the threatener instead. He went away and we had a grand time after that.

[JonBigwood]

Yes, they were in their rights to remove the tank. And people were also right to call them selfish and entitled. One might also argue that the tank was selfish and entitled too.

To be honest, I would rather play with normal pulls instead of huge pulls and have a slower run than wait for a new tank. Bad words would merit a kick, though.

[Jamein]

why are they failing at their role? theyre doing dps just not the kind the party wants. according to others in this thread (not sure if you were one of them but it bears mentioning nonetheless) just doing dps is okay regardless of whether it fits the situation or not. ice mages and things included.

This is what infuriates me about the game/community and how people cry about parsers.

If a tank loses aggro on 1 or 2 mobs people say the tank can't tank.
If the healer lets a person die people say the healer is no good.
If a DPS isn't even doing half of the DPS that his basic rotation would allow, CAN'T SAY ANYTHING THAT'S NAUGHTY DON'T HURT HIS FEELINGS YOU DON'T PAY HIS SUB.

[Awha]

Well a dps refusing to aoe on multiple mobs is failing at their role imo. They were given aoe skills for reason. Same goes with the ice mage thing you see pop up here and there. I won’t defend that example. There are legitimate uses of vote kick. So if the team kicked there I have no problem with that, but at the same time if my aoe downed the mobs fast enough anyway I don’t know that I would personally start the kick. But I would blacklist.

Tank also have access to AoE and each have an aggro skill that hirai multiple people. Why is the dps player not afforded the same consideration as a healer or tank that have the tools necessary to do large pulls? This double standard is why I started this threay because it confused me.

It makes no sense if people feel that a dps should aoe when they can, why do not dps healers or small pull tanks get a pass? As many have admitted single target, small pulls, and no dps healers can still clear the dungeon, things are dying just not the way they would like but progress is still being made.

To be honest, I would rather play with normal pulls instead of huge pulls and have a slower run than wait for a new tank. Bad words would merit a kick, though.

Tank replacement time is slightly overblown, what my friends did they were the ones that removed the tank just asked in discord for a replacement and I filled in. Ask friends FC mates, or even NN people would gladly fill in and bypass the wait time.

[Physic]

Tank also have access to AoE and each have an aggro skill that hirai multiple people. Why is the dps player not afforded the same consideration as a healer or tank that have the tools necessary to do large pulls? This double standard is why I started this threay because it confused me.

It makes no sense if people feel that a dps should aoe when they can, why do not dps healers or small pull tanks get a pass? As many have admitted single target, small pulls, and no dps healers can still clear the dungeon, things are dying just not the way they would like but progress is still being made.

i think the idea is that while tanks or healers can DPS, thats not their purpose. Tanks throw away dps for hate generation, pull speed etc. Healers purpose is recovery and keeping everyone alive. for those classes DPS is a bonus. Most people wont kick a rdm for not using vercure, or monk for not popping earth stance, or mantra if they get hate, even though its helpful.

However, i would say great dps is less obvious and basic than heals/tanking, its tougher and less obvious to decide how great the dps is performing, unless you are using a parser, which its actually illegal to use as a justification for beef.

Overall, i dont think you should be kicking anyone who is honestly achieving their job's main goal. Also, in general, i think you should defer to the person's judgement of how to handle their main role, as long as its adequate. Even if it is not optimal.

While people do have to work together, if you didnt queue as a certain role, you have less right to define how its main goal is executed.