Tank entitlement vs group entitlement

[Mavrias]

It’s great you have so much time played and the time to do it. I have a ton of time in The game too. But, what about the individual that only gets 1.5 or 2 hours to play when they sit down. I mean vote kicking for absurd reasons is a major time loss for them.

an absurd reason for one person may not be so absurd for another. obviously theres cases like that thread a week or so ago about someone getting kicked for their char's voice but thise arent the norm.

and tbh a person having limited playtime is not the rest of the group's responsibility and the inverse can be said as well.

[Mavrias]

so, question, if you or someone else was kicked 25% of the time you use duty finder, would you still use it?

at what % of the time would you start to be like, duty finder isnt worth queuing for?

Personally, On dps just the standard 15-30 minute wait deters me. If I expected kicks, id probably never queue solo.

Also, id probably leave any group that does what i consider a bad kick, i personally don't want to be a part of that type of group, i wouldnt expect others to do that though.

if im getting kicked frequently theres more likely to be something wrong with me than something wrong with the rest of the playerbase. id probably try to examine what i'm doing wrong before i quit entirely. if it isnt something i'm doing then id start just goin with friends.

i do that anyway, but i understand not everyone has a lot of people they consistently do things with, but its probably something everyone should strive for in an mmo.

i accept that in a group of pugs not everyone clicks, personality wise or playstyle wise, and thats fine, but that doesnt mean they have to stick together if theyre really incompatible.

[Feidam]

Doesn't matter if you have 1 hour or 10, you get along with your party or the party gives you the boot -- especially post-70.

If it happens often, perhaps crafting would be a better use of that precious hour.

Edit. That response semi got to me. I can’t tell you the number of times i’ve Seen that kind of attitude affect patients in real life. Sorry I should not have said my original response.

[Feidam]

an absurd reason for one person may not be so absurd for another. obviously theres cases like that thread a week or so ago about someone getting kicked for their char's voice but thise arent the norm.

and tbh a person having limited playtime is not the rest of the group's responsibility and the inverse can be said as well.

Your right playtime doesn’t really factor, but Willy Nilly use of the vote kick does. I was bringing that up because the attitude is well sucks to be them. When people know when they are being unreasonable. However, the lack of empathy being shown is staggering.

And let’s be honest some of the stuff is pure nitpicking when the dungeon would be still completed in most of the cases with a pretty decent time. Again I’m not talking about people that really can’t pull their weight and do even the basic level of their role or people with bad attitudes.

[van_arn]

Your right playtime doesn’t really factor, but Willy Nilly use of the vote kick does. I was bringing that up because the attitude is well sucks to be them. When they people know when they are being unreasonable. However, the lack of empathy being shown is staggering.

And let’s be honest some of the stuff is pure nitpicking when the dungeon would be still completed in most of the cases with a pretty decent time. Again I’m not talking about people that really can’t pull their weight and do even the basic level of their role or people with bad attitudes.

You're going to have a tough time kicking someone completely at random. People are usually unwilling to vote unless they see a problem, be that in gameplay or personality. Not to mention it's a waste of a kick cooldown to just throw them around left and right.

Ultimately someone's going to have to want someone gone to initiate a votekick; it's not a matter of just cycling through party finder replacements until the party gets something that isn't a white mage, for example.

I'm not in favor of kicking someone completely at random, but ultimately it's the party's decision to make. Perhaps I'd vote no, but the other person votes yes and the person in question in removed. That's how it works.

Even if someone just blindly kicks, that's their vote to cast-- and treated as the party's decision, intended or no.

[Mavrias]

Your right playtime doesn’t really factor, but Willy Nilly use of the vote kick does. I was bringing that up because the attitude is well sucks to be them. When they people know when they are being unreasonable. However, the lack of empathy being shown is staggering.

And let’s be honest some of the stuff is pure nitpicking when the dungeon would be still completed in most of the cases with a pretty decent time. Again I’m not talking about people that really can’t pull their weight and do even the basic level of their role.

okay, lets talk about the other side of limited playtime and empathy. what about the person who only has an hour of playtime and wants to squeeze in as many roulettes as possible in that time?

they wanna go fast so they pull big and nonstop and the healer and a dps are going ham, but one dps doesnt like aoes and insists on single targetting through a twelve mob pull, despite the rest of the party asking them to aoe.

is it better to waste the tanks limited time because the dps doesnt wanna play ball?

[WaterShield]

the difference is, when others dont want to play with you, you dont have to wait 10-25 minutes to audition for the next audition.

if no one lost any progress, kicking wouldnt be a big deal.

Also, if people kicked everyone they thought sucked, the dungeon duty finder couldnt do its job, which is to create a means for any player to complete content they need to progress.

Ex trials, Savage, even raids, those are meant to be optional content. Where if you get kicked, you can still progress. Dungeons are the baseline progression. Blocking people from completing it would destroy the game.

If a tank is kicked they can queue back in less than 3-5 minutes... wooo

[Feidam]

You're going to have a tough time kicking someone completely at random. People are usually unwilling to vote unless they see a problem, be that in gameplay or personality. Not to mention it's a waste of a kick cooldown to just throw them around left and right.

Ultimately someone's going to have to want someone gone to initiate a votekick; it's not a matter of just cycling through party finder replacements until the party gets something that isn't a white mage, for example.

except even you admitted that people will just click yes and not really pay attention. So a bad reason can easily get through.

Also, if they are kicking someone just because of their class from duty finder I imagine they will be getting a sanction.

And with your edit if someone blindly clicks yes on a vote that is bogus then they are culpable for that abuse as well. Even though it was unintentional.

[Feidam]

okay, lets talk about the other side of limited playtime and empathy. what about the person who only has an hour of playtime and wants to squeeze in as many roulettes as possible in that time?

they wanna go fast so they pull big and nonstop and the healer and a dps are going ham, but one dps doesnt like aoes and insists on single targetting through a twelve mob pull, despite the rest of the party asking them to aoe.

is it better to waste the tanks limited time because the dps doesnt wanna play ball?

Well a dps refusing to aoe on multiple mobs is failing at their role imo. They were given aoe skills for reason. Same goes with the ice mage thing you see pop up here and there. I won’t defend that example. There are legitimate uses of vote kick. So if the team kicked there I have no problem with that, but at the same time if my aoe downed the mobs fast enough anyway I don’t know that I would personally start the kick. But I would blacklist.

[WaterShield]

What are you even talking about? Don't use arguments such as, "if you can't use basic reading comprehension" if you, yourself are incapable of such. You stated that the kick feature is a tool to remove a party member via majority rule, and asked you to provide something that validates this as anything more than just your opinion. You were unable to do so. I'm not cherrypicking. I'm providing sources and facts. A GM's inability to act does not prove that this system is being used as intended.

You basically came here and said the cure for having anxiety as a tank is to not tank at all. At least not for randoms. This couldn't be more dismissive of the issue at hand. You then come back and say that you are not saying that anyone has more or less right to use the duty finder. If I'm confused, then it might have something to do with your contradictive statements and not my inability to comprehend them.

If your whole stance is if the party doesn't want to play with you, they don't have to; then that's fine. I have no quarrel with that or with you. I completely understand that this is your opinion. And for the record, I didn't bring up big pulls and healer DPS because you stated them yourself, but because they are the crux of the expectations in these discussions. I should not have put them in the same response to you. That was not necessary and for that I do apologize.

"Although this feature is in place for a party to collectively decide whom they wish to play with . . ."

So.... the feature (kicking) is in place for a party to collectively (via majority rule) decide whom they wish to play with (remove party member)

Are you trolling, or did you just not read the GM messages fully?