5.0 Combat changes: What do you expect?

[Shurrikhan]

Unlimited resources is a nasty can of worms. It allows for a lot of very problematic strategies to be viable. At the moment resources are too vast, depletion isn't a real concern barring a massive amount of mistakes. To effectively get rid of primary resources the entire combat system would have to be overhauled, to the extent that most CDs would have to increase and possibly cooldowns on primary combo rotation buttons.

Ironically the best balance of our thought points is probably the job with the least limited resources in the game BLM.

But TP-users have always been balanced already around the weakness of the high-TP cost skills themselves, making the penalty utterly redundant and utterly imbalanced. Casters had the very same power curves to their AoEs (if not better, in many cases) without any of the attached inflated resource costs.

[OcieKo]

But why?
You yourself said that resources are no concern, and not needed.
Most jobs have their own specific ressource and are in no need for a global resource.

That's because they are too easy to maintain. We can do a lot of wasteful uses of our resources and be just fine, which is the issue. Removing them would make it worse not better. Find more BLM/PLD like ways to use it sure, but just remove them, no.

[MariaArvana]

No... AoE skills are going to have to require some sort of resource. War would be absolutely OP broken with Berserk Overpower spam in any low level content...

I feel like since all jobs already have an MP pool that will be the resource... with Melee/Physical jobs that already use MP (PLD, DRK, BRD) getting an adjustment to the costs of their existing spells and abilities.
EDIT: forgot rdm has some tp use too.

I mean, at the keynote in Vegas, Yoshi-P even specifically said he hopes "people won't be complaining about 'I need more TP, I need more TP!'". The quote implies that either AoE on melees will be utterly free, or will use so little MP that its effectively infinite. I even want to find another interview where he even admitted TP is basically not needed but I can't find it atm and I'm at work.

Considering that melee AoE is weaker than caster AoE by the large, it seems fine to me to give melees infinite TP, considering casters effectively have infinite MP in dungeons when AoE matters (seriously. Out of the hundreds of dungeons spamming scatter, tri-bind spamming in DT, and lul BLM mp, I've never once bottom'd out because even when things die slowly, Lucid and/or Aetherflow are way too strong at MP sustain, doubling with MP regen between packs covering any weaknesses.)

Berserk overpower really isn't that particularly strong, considering its only once every 90 seconds when BLM can chaingun Fire 2's for days for more non-berserk potency. Considering that 95% of the time my BF can use 4-5x overpower every Berserk in low level dungeons due to TP regen between packs anyway, it's not like suddenly having no TP would change things. Oh, and goad/TP refresh still exist to make TP drain's use as an aoe limiter even more non-existant.

Resource use on physical attacker's AoE in this game is an active hindrance, considering us casters have far more potent AoE and our resources are basically infinite, barring terrible MP management or a team where everyone is doing terrible damage but you. It also saves Square a lot of dev time having to re-balance physical AoE against a resource that several jobs use a lifeblood in their single target rotations, or extremely powerful support. It's all speculation of course, but given how rushed they seem to be in based on a few answers so far on other topics and their general history of taking the easiest route available to them; I simply believe they'll go the route of uninhibited physical AoE.

[Shurrikhan]

That's because they are too easy to maintain. We can do a lot of wasteful uses of our resources and be just fine, which is the issue. Removing them would make it worse not better. Find more BLM/PLD like ways to use it sure, but just remove them, no.

The issue is that one system does not necessarily fit all. Not every job can satisfyingly turn a balance of two otherwise unrelated resources into a mechanic. I'd argue even that the only reason it works as well as it does for PLD now is because it's unique.

[Khalithar]

I’ll tell you what I want the most. I want some of our new abilities to replace existing ones with a higher potency. I’ve been playing a paladin since a few months before HW launches and I’m REALLY bored of fast blade, riot blade, and savage blade. I think upgrading old abilities is also a fantastic compromise for creating something new while simultaneously addressing hotbar bloat.

The issue is that one system does not necessarily fit all. Not every job can satisfyingly turn a balance of two otherwise unrelated resources into a mechanic. I'd argue even that the only reason it works as well as it does for PLD now is because it's unique.

Paladins resource isn’t the most exciting to use honestly, it’s certainly useful. Sheltron and Intervention are godly powerful for OTing 12s but in other fights I really wish I had some other dps options for it outside of intentionally using Sheltron to block weak aoe so I can shield swipe occasionally. :/

[OcieKo]

The issue is that one system does not necessarily fit all. Not every job can satisfyingly turn a balance of two otherwise unrelated resources into a mechanic. I'd argue even that the only reason it works as well as it does for PLD now is because it's unique.

I don't mean identical, but where balancing it is vital. If they wanted to add an "all mp" ability on a job like BLMs Flare but have its dmg scale on MP then a job could focus on building it up and then poofing it as needed. Could give a job with a "sweet spot" where trying to maintain say 40-60% gives some sort of benefit. Trying to keep it as low as possible is an option as well, basically to the point you'd regen enough to use whatever ability you wanted to use then back to keeping it down.

And like the one before you said, MP regen is too strong right now, weakening it is a better option than removing costs and limitations.

[Shurrikhan]

Paladins resource isn’t the most exciting to use honestly, it’s certainly useful. Sheltron and Intervention are godly powerful for OTing 12s but in other fights I really wish I had some other dps options for it outside of intentionally using Sheltron to block weak aoe so I can shield swipe occasionally. :/

I was referring to the TP/MP interaction that OcieKo was pointing out as example of reasons for retaining both MP and TP as resources game-wide. Personally, I find only MP the actual resource out of AoE and would scarcely blink at its loss, but it is technically a mechanic of sorts.

And like the one before you said, MP regen is too strong right now, weakening it is a better option than removing costs and limitations.

I've said no such thing if referring to passive MP regen. I've said only that skills like Lucid Dreaming and Invigorate are button bloat that could be replaced with increases passive regen with no loss to gameplay and that much of BLM's potential design improvements are hamstrung by its UI ticks lacking granularity. I don't think magic classes need to have as finite of AoE as physical classes have suffered; we already balance the potency-per-second of the casts themselves and balancing instead around resource would only encourage periods of downtime in order to reduce effective content difficulty.

[OcieKo]

I was referring to the TP/MP interaction that OcieKo was pointing out as example of reasons for retaining both MP and TP as resources game-wide. Personally, I find only MP the actual resource out of AoE and would scarcely blink at its loss, but it is technically a mechanic of sorts.

Oh, my original argument was against the flat out deletion of BOTH MP AND TP. And agreeing with the need for the use of the primary resource to be more important/interactive.

[Shurrikhan]

Oh, my original argument was against the flat out deletion of BOTH MP and TP. And agreeing with the need for the use of the primary resource to be more important/interactive.

Ahh, my mistake then; I must have only seen what I thought was your first post through what was already a reply of sorts.

I agree then, on principle, though in practice I don't see why a job gauge itself (or a job-gauge-linked resource present from the start) wouldn't be sufficient for pretty much everyone but healers.

[Mikki]

I'd just like to see them get away from the pure healer, shield healer mentality. As they mentioned in the interview, it isn't healthy and I'd like more mitigation in my whm kit.
Also, please make lilies useful or get rid of them!