Thread: 5.0 Combat changes: What do you expect?

Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

Any examples? "Dynamic" can have some wide-ranging meanings in this context. I don't mean to dismiss; I'm genuinely curious.

You're right, the idea came out to me when they explained about the difficulty of balancing 3 healer with the duality heal-shield and spoke about rework in general.

I think we could be seeing a slight drop of skills numbers in favour of flowing rotations. More intuitive combo button smashing to make it simple, less skills that break our piano concert ahah. I feel like it could give space for more creative boss mechanics as well.

It's simple to imagine it on DPS classes but for healers and tanks isn't quite easy and my personal opinion on healers is that they could be specialised: let's destroy the duality heal-shield and make healers mainly focused on one type of healing; Like AST could be focused on shields + buffs, WHM big heals but with some gimmicks, SCH more strategic heals like Excogitation + pet, next healers could be based on passive healing, HoTs or healing from DPSing.

So I guess 5.0 it could be quite experimental for tanks and healers as they will be changing a lot during the expansion. Not "dynamic" I was talking about but this could be seen as some kind of dynamicity as well XD

I wishes they dont just balance the class numbers in 5.0 but actually make them balanced.

- PLD oath become OGCD + fun to play in the another contents than raid, like dungeon roulette for easy example.
I dont see the reason why not.

- For a Drk to become a solid tank again.
To have a slash debuff in their kit, this is the main reason DRK cant play as a solid MT.
Look in M/F for example, while DRK kits is arguably 2nd best in 12s, but DRK+PLD is the worst tank combination everywhere, War+DRK is fine but then its less comfortable for healers than War/Drk+PLD and less effective too.
Not to mention DRK still lacking 1 CD compare to War and PLD and Living dead is the worst skill ever implanted on the tank, if every tanks can choose between Holmgang / Hallowed ground / Living dead, no tanks will choose LD ever.
( Strong mitigation : Vengence / Sentinel / Shadow Wall
Unique mitigation : Inner beast / Sheltron / Dark Mind
Small mitigation : Raw intuition / Bulwark / None (The Blackest Night? its not even as useful as Rampart lmao, if you are lucky with parry Anticipation might even mitigate more dmg, too many flaws in this skill)
Group mitigation : Shake it off / Divine Veil / None )

- Balance out the enmity on all of the tank, not because they are MT or OT, in dungeons / alliance we only have 1 tank that actually tanking and pulling+maintain enmity as PLD is a real pain to do compare to War/DRK, its not fun and poor performance in every aspect.

- When Dps fail on mechanic, give them damage down for 10%per stack for 1 minute instead of Vuln stack up.
This will fix FFlogs and DPS greedy problems for good.

- Give "Diversion" to range dps too, BRD/MCH/Dancer need it too, for Scion sake
Dev made MCH in to a burst class for every minute and enmity generate is freaking high yet you dont give Diversion to them, what could go wrong!
Tactician+Refresh are technically enough for 2 wildfire, there will be 1 of it that you wont be using any enmity control skill, you wont steal aggro but you will be 2nd or 3rd on it if you are really good on MCH.
Thats why we have a Ninja? sorry but Ninja is for everything not just enmity control.

- No meta around a single/two classes.
Spread the kits around the classes, Why only Ninja get all the good kits? Trick attack, enmity control, slash debuff, mobility jump skill where you can choose your position yourself.
Why trying so hard to buff a useless class like DRG? it was bad in Heavensward and in Stromblood Dev just gave DRG the best buff ever by buff Battle Litany + Give Dragon Sight.
Anyone can be Meta you know? just give Dragon Sight to Samurai and call it Samurai Sight, Boom! Samurai new meta!
(Make Ley Lines share speed buff so everyone stand in it too(this one is a joke please dont do it))
Instead of focusing buffing specific classes, Dev should spread out and make every classes viable on their own.
Remove slash/piercing debuff too or allow more classes to be able to do it not just 2 or 3 classes, so they can easily become a Meta.
There will be "Best comp. even so" But make it "not that much differences" like in HW DRG doesnt make much difference if your MCH is good, its only make differs with BRD in the party.
In HW, have MNK instead of Ninja is fine too if your DRG is good, while Ninja will provide a slightly better performance overall, but its not a big differences.

Yoshi P said so himself that he dislike MT/OT idea, yet you give us Ultimatum + Shirk, like WTF?
He said he dont like how healers are now and want to balance them out, while make a WHM HoT skills overheal everything, to the point that they need to reduce enmity generate from WHM skills.
YET!!! AST HoT and burst heal have the highest potency in the game while generate NONE enmity, is this a joke?!

Originally Posted by Dualgunner

DRG was bad in Heavensward? That one sure passed me by. The class flowed so very well for me; it was fun, and had a strong risk/reward system with having Geirskogul cost BotD time. It was meta on top of all that too. I'm not entirely sure why you think, of all things, Dragon Sight is what makes DRG meta. What makes DRG meta right now is how strong piercing debuff and battle litany are as buffs for bard in particular, whom themselves give a lot of powerful buffs one would want in the party.

Also Heavensward gave Dragoon Battle Litany, not Stormblood.

Battle Litany was not 15% in HW, it got buff, but skill exits in HW yes.
We dont even need piercing debuff in HW, so you understand now how weak/matters it was in HW.
And Dragon Sight indeed make DRG meta, lets say you dont have it and they dont nerf MCH (by take DoT off of MCH which used to have 1 and turn the class into 1 minute burst which require to be in sync with party buffs and the DRG Battle Litany, Dragon Sight)
If DRG dont have Dragon Sight and Battle Litany didnt got buff on crit rate, not to mention you are the only class that can do Piercing debuff, DRG wont be a meta in SB.
Lets say MNK have piercing too and Brotherhood give 5% physical dmg and 10% crit, DRG wont matters anymore.

What i try to say is, it not just DRG, if you look at Meta classes and none Meta classes(in SB), the skills from example DRG, NIN class in SB allow them to get in Meta rather too easy, by putting all useful skills on them.
Which i think they trying to buffing some classes too hard, for example DRG, Battle Litany was not 15% and you dont have Dragon Sight, if they add dps skill and more classes can do piercing we would have different Meta.

What I expect from 5.0 combat....

I expect things to get simpler. A breath of fresh air. With the removal of TP, combining of certain skills, discarding of others and hopefully a complete axe to role abilities... that's what I hope for. The games 17 classes have gotten so disastrously tangled by new ideas, 1.0/2.0 hold-overs, MMO staples, expansion skills and a generally inflexible battle system that they have to hit a reset button somehow.

FFXIV brought over an entire truckload of absolute garbage from 1.0 that doesn't work with how they currently design content but they're forced to account for it.

FFXIV still has Crowd Control skills. Full Stop. Think about that for a second.

When was the last time you even imagined, outside of PVP, "Hey, Binding or Sleeping that set of mobs would really help my party out" NOT EVER! It's absolutely laughable. The mobs in this game are so pathetically easy they might as well be training dummies. You want to revitalize the combat system and make it interesting? Make everything hit you like an absolute UNIT; bosses included. I should be scared to even leave the city without a buddy to back me up. Crowd Control should be my best friend not a hangnail that you're too afraid to rip off.

But it's not part of their PVE combat design. Sleeping, stunning, silencing, binding a boss is not a thing, unless SE arbitrarily decides it should be a thing for that one fight. And these days, they might as well just make it a Quick Time Event built into the fight. Just move it all to PvP...

1.0 multi-classing became cross classing, became role actions which is now "We hate this and can't handle this many variables." (How the hell was making Esuna an optional skill signed off on as a good idea?)

Iunno. More than anything they need to clean out the combat system and have a clear, strong vision of how each class should work INCLUDING how it should grow going forward. Hard to do with 17 classes... especially when you have a sack of garbage you're hauling because Grandma said she'll haunt you if you get rid of it.

Side note: You know what I think would be healthy for the game? Designing fights/content with multiple solutions. Right now everything is choreographed for one, UNT PRECIZELY VON, solution. Why not create multiple ways to tackle a mechanic? Would make it a lot more interesting...