Thread: 5.0 Combat changes: What do you expect?

I doubt they would just remove all resource cost from physical AoE but keep Spell based AoE flaring MP. Either a different resource may be needed, AoE will end up getting a cool down, or they will become combo finishers.... or spell based ones may stop costing MP.... but I really feel it would be very unbalanced to leave the Spell based AoE costing MP when physical ones go free.

Originally Posted by kidalutz

I'm just worried the lack of tp and the reliance on mp for everything is gonna screw people hard.

I suspect it'll be dark buttons all around.

Realistically, nothing that didn't use MP before won't suddenly be using it now unless they're doing an entire overhaul over every aspect of the combat system (which I suspect these combat changes are not going to be anywhere near that level of scale, based on stormblood's 'battle system changes'). The most realistic thing they're gonna do is just remove TP costs so physical attacks no longer need a resource of any kind to function, since outside of AoE or being freshly revived, TP was impossible to bottom out on any job unless the fight dragged on for eternity thus rendering it basically pointless. They'd also have to severely re-balance and revamp DRK, PLD, BRD & BRD (and technically they'd have to design dancer to account for it) due to the jobs using both MP & TP.

So we'll have spells continuing to use MP, with every physical move being resource free (outside of gauge moves).

Originally Posted by Legion88

In my opinion ressources should enforce or support mechanics and not just limit things.
That's the reason why i hated TP from the beginning, because they were just a limitation for physical jobs.
MP is also mostly just limiting the jobs but not providing any real impact on or interweaving with the mechanics of the jobs.

Unlimited resources is a nasty can of worms. It allows for a lot of very problematic strategies to be viable. At the moment resources are too vast, depletion isn't a real concern barring a massive amount of mistakes. To effectively get rid of primary resources the entire combat system would have to be overhauled, to the extent that most CDs would have to increase and possibly cooldowns on primary combo rotation buttons.

Ironically the best balance of our thought points is probably the job with the least limited resources in the game BLM.

Originally Posted by Rowde

No... AoE skills are going to have to require some sort of resource. War would be absolutely OP broken with Berserk Overpower spam in any low level content...

I feel like since all jobs already have an MP pool that will be the resource... with Melee/Physical jobs that already use MP (PLD, DRK, BRD) getting an adjustment to the costs of their existing spells and abilities.
EDIT: forgot rdm has some tp use too.

I mean, at the keynote in Vegas, Yoshi-P even specifically said he hopes "people won't be complaining about 'I need more TP, I need more TP!'". The quote implies that either AoE on melees will be utterly free, or will use so little MP that its effectively infinite. I even want to find another interview where he even admitted TP is basically not needed but I can't find it atm and I'm at work.

Considering that melee AoE is weaker than caster AoE by the large, it seems fine to me to give melees infinite TP, considering casters effectively have infinite MP in dungeons when AoE matters (seriously. Out of the hundreds of dungeons spamming scatter, tri-bind spamming in DT, and lul BLM mp, I've never once bottom'd out because even when things die slowly, Lucid and/or Aetherflow are way too strong at MP sustain, doubling with MP regen between packs covering any weaknesses.)

Berserk overpower really isn't that particularly strong, considering its only once every 90 seconds when BLM can chaingun Fire 2's for days for more non-berserk potency. Considering that 95% of the time my BF can use 4-5x overpower every Berserk in low level dungeons due to TP regen between packs anyway, it's not like suddenly having no TP would change things. Oh, and goad/TP refresh still exist to make TP drain's use as an aoe limiter even more non-existant.

Resource use on physical attacker's AoE in this game is an active hindrance, considering us casters have far more potent AoE and our resources are basically infinite, barring terrible MP management or a team where everyone is doing terrible damage but you. It also saves Square a lot of dev time having to re-balance physical AoE against a resource that several jobs use a lifeblood in their single target rotations, or extremely powerful support. It's all speculation of course, but given how rushed they seem to be in based on a few answers so far on other topics and their general history of taking the easiest route available to them; I simply believe they'll go the route of uninhibited physical AoE.

I expect things to get worse.

DRK still being the "squishy" tank.
The OT/MT focus translating into 2 tanks and 2 undesired Jobs.
Whatever bandaid fix WHM is going to get, AST is going to get the same utility too in addition to their new toys.
The removal of TP meaning everyone bottoms out on the new resource by just doing part of their basic rotation.
If the latter doesn't happen, DRK to be the only tank that can still bottom out.

Yes, I like pleasant surprises.

Can we all agree that PvP like combos could be an option and you could either use it or keep one button : one ability ? Everyone is happy that way.

I'd like to see a bit more button consolidation where it's obviously the best option.
RDM : Impact should proc on Jolt (no one should use Jolt over Impact). VerHoly and VerFlare could proc on VerAero and VerThunder. But RDM does not suffer from button bloat.
SMN : Summon Bahamut could proc on Rouse (although Rouse is sometimes used when Bahamut is ready...) or DWT, and Akh Morn could replace Enkindle when the dergon is out. Technically, Bahamut turns off all pet interactions except Rouse, so there's some room there to overwrite some skills. Enkindle itself is annoying, I'd rather have the pet's "ultimate" as an ability like the other ones. Enkindle leads to awkward queueing in the pet's IA. Same with Devotion. DeathFlare could replace the DWT button too.
AST : Gravity could get something along the lines of Miasma II or Holy. An AoE DoT or a Stun / Slow for dungeons. I'd like something that willmake Synastry a bit more efficient. Like giving a small amount of heal as I DPS or something with our cards (sharing a monotarget card for instance). Because we heal very little with Benefic, so Synastry has a very limited use (Pantokrator II on the tanks if things go really bad)
WHM : rework lilies hard, or change the job's gauge entirely if needed. I don't need WHM as a buffer but why not, just like it could be a "BLM" healer and thus have CRAZY DPS and heals. That's not the case right now.
SCH : is fine, but the deployed shield with Largesse / Defiance / Convalescence / Nature's Minne / Mantra is getting out of hand in the end of the expansion haha. Largesse could just go back to WHM and that's be enough.
PLD : Flash should be merged with total eclipse (especially if we get rid of TP). Shield Lob and Shield Bash could be merged too. Could Sheltron have the added effect of Bulwark ? with a decreased gauge cost.
DRK : Darkside should be a trait, not a button. When in fight, you don't tick mana, when out of combat you get mana back. Dark Arts should be a buff with a duration, a small burst phase in OT and adds enmity if under Grit. Give it back Reprisal too.
BRD : have access to Diversion / anything please.
DRG : Heavy Thrust could be on impulse drive.