5.0 Combat changes: What do you expect?

[OcieKo]

Honestly, I'm just doing a shivering dogeza inching my face closer to my ass to kiss it now... My expectation was AST would get vastly changed to compensate for a new healer, seeing as that is no longer on the table... Refer to sentence one.

I suspect DRK will get a lot of changes.

Tanks a sort of half and half, check and balances style of getting abilties.

MP/TP users getting a lot of cost/duration changes.

TP users getting a new system of costs, possibly Riot Blade/Siphon Strike type abilities being passed around/integrated into old abilities.

I suspect Gunbreaker will get a personal barrier (or single target/personal) and no gap closer. Basically competition for TBN and another tank wit no gap closer rather than PLD getting one. Only way I could see PLD getting a mobility ability would be if it was attached to Cover.

Enmity reductions put into more practical spaces, i.e. SAM Merciful Eyes, even if I suspect that skill won't make it into Shadowbringers along with Hagakure and Meditate. Possibly bake -Enmity into Yaten. (I play enough SAM to have an opinion at least)

I don't want to think about healer changes...

I don't mind combo rotation buttons, and there is a lot of places they could be added even for non melee jobs. Fire IV & Blizzard IV; Verflare & Verholy; Jolt 1, Jolt 2, & Impact; Wheeling Thrust & Fang and Claw; Straight Shot & Refulgent Arrow; Flare & Foul; etc. Barring MCH Changes its primary rotation begs for it atm. RDM in general you can almost treat like a melee to begin with.

I hope incoming damage gets drastically boosted to improve tanking and healing. This trend of games trying to become DPS zerg fests is incredibly disheartening for Defense/Support players like myself. Being able to sneak in DPS as a healer I found fun, then it transitioned into the primary role of being a healer, and I was all like "but I wanted to heal..." Need to flip around the exploiting of incoming large damage windows and defaulting low damage sections, to exploiting of low damage windows and defaulting of high damage sections. Reducing enmity gain and healing throughput doesn't seem like a bad thing in my case. Shirk would definitely need a reworking/nerfing, wouldn't mind if it required a target to be a tank in tank stance to work, it's original intent was to be a tank swap assist and nowadays its mostly a replacement for having to build enmity at all.

Wouldn't be surprised if Assassinate/Misery's End get culled or turned into traits.

And I agree, a redistribution of ability acquisition levels is going to be needed regardless, unless they end up using the response to cross role being baking in core skills to those gaps and they just acquire on level up rather than get assigned.

[Astrus]

I expect things to get worse.

DRK still being the "squishy" tank.
The OT/MT focus translating into 2 tanks and 2 undesired Jobs.
Whatever bandaid fix WHM is going to get, AST is going to get the same utility too in addition to their new toys.
The removal of TP meaning everyone bottoms out on the new resource by just doing part of their basic rotation.
If the latter doesn't happen, DRK to be the only tank that can still bottom out.

Yes, I like pleasant surprises.

[Barraind]

The OT/MT focus translating into 2 tanks and 2 undesired

They dont need many fixes to make an MT/OT paradigm easy to work, dark knight could be there with warrior for MT with few enough fixes, and you can give paladin another targetable defensive cooldown and give gunbreaker similar and they fall into OT pretty easily.



I expect massive changes to tp users though. They can take this opportunity to streamline A LOT of stuff. I have a list of stuff they could possibly do that'll fix some of the major issues in 3 or 4 issues of the game without making substantial changes to how classes play.

[Legion88]

No... AoE skills are going to have to require some sort of resource. War would be absolutely OP broken with Berserk Overpower spam in any low level content...

But it wouldn't change much beside i don't have to stop Overpower after Berserk runs out.
MRD/WAR is already broken in this regard in comparision with DRK and GLD/PLD.

I feel like since all jobs already have an MP pool that will be the resource... with Melee/Physical jobs that already use MP (PLD, DRK, BRD) getting an adjustment to the costs of their existing spells and abilities.
EDIT: forgot rdm has some tp use too.

In my opinion ressources should enforce or support mechanics and not just limit things.
That's the reason why i hated TP from the beginning, because they were just a limitation for physical jobs.
MP is also mostly just limiting the jobs but not providing any real impact on or interweaving with the mechanics of the jobs.

[Mansion]

Can we all agree that PvP like combos could be an option and you could either use it or keep one button : one ability ? Everyone is happy that way.

I'd like to see a bit more button consolidation where it's obviously the best option.
RDM : Impact should proc on Jolt (no one should use Jolt over Impact). VerHoly and VerFlare could proc on VerAero and VerThunder. But RDM does not suffer from button bloat.
SMN : Summon Bahamut could proc on Rouse (although Rouse is sometimes used when Bahamut is ready...) or DWT, and Akh Morn could replace Enkindle when the dergon is out. Technically, Bahamut turns off all pet interactions except Rouse, so there's some room there to overwrite some skills. Enkindle itself is annoying, I'd rather have the pet's "ultimate" as an ability like the other ones. Enkindle leads to awkward queueing in the pet's IA. Same with Devotion. DeathFlare could replace the DWT button too.
AST : Gravity could get something along the lines of Miasma II or Holy. An AoE DoT or a Stun / Slow for dungeons. I'd like something that willmake Synastry a bit more efficient. Like giving a small amount of heal as I DPS or something with our cards (sharing a monotarget card for instance). Because we heal very little with Benefic, so Synastry has a very limited use (Pantokrator II on the tanks if things go really bad)
WHM : rework lilies hard, or change the job's gauge entirely if needed. I don't need WHM as a buffer but why not, just like it could be a "BLM" healer and thus have CRAZY DPS and heals. That's not the case right now.
SCH : is fine, but the deployed shield with Largesse / Defiance / Convalescence / Nature's Minne / Mantra is getting out of hand in the end of the expansion haha. Largesse could just go back to WHM and that's be enough.
PLD : Flash should be merged with total eclipse (especially if we get rid of TP). Shield Lob and Shield Bash could be merged too. Could Sheltron have the added effect of Bulwark ? with a decreased gauge cost.
DRK : Darkside should be a trait, not a button. When in fight, you don't tick mana, when out of combat you get mana back. Dark Arts should be a buff with a duration, a small burst phase in OT and adds enmity if under Grit. Give it back Reprisal too.
BRD : have access to Diversion / anything please.
DRG : Heavy Thrust could be on impulse drive.

[OcieKo]

In my opinion ressources should enforce or support mechanics and not just limit things.
That's the reason why i hated TP from the beginning, because they were just a limitation for physical jobs.
MP is also mostly just limiting the jobs but not providing any real impact on or interweaving with the mechanics of the jobs.

Unlimited resources is a nasty can of worms. It allows for a lot of very problematic strategies to be viable. At the moment resources are too vast, depletion isn't a real concern barring a massive amount of mistakes. To effectively get rid of primary resources the entire combat system would have to be overhauled, to the extent that most CDs would have to increase and possibly cooldowns on primary combo rotation buttons.

Ironically the best balance of our thought points is probably the job with the least limited resources in the game BLM.

[Legion88]

Unlimited resources is a nasty can of worms. It allows for a lot of very problematic strategies to be viable. At the moment resources are too vast, depletion isn't a real concern barring a massive amount of mistakes. To effectively get rid of primary resources the entire combat system would have to be overhauled, to the extent that most CDs would have to increase and possibly cooldowns on primary combo rotation buttons.

When ressources are only a concern after a huge mistake and not relevant for the jobs mechanics itself they should be removed.

Ironically the best balance of our thought points is probably the job with the least limited resources in the game BLM.

Perfect example of a mechanical implementation of ressources, regeneration and depleting, same goes for PLD.
For every other job the ressources MP/TP are just hard limitations and unnecessary for the working of the jobs.

[OcieKo]

When resources are only a concern after a huge mistake and not relevant for the jobs mechanics itself they should be removed.

Still, flat out removing them is a horrible idea.

[Legion88]

Still, flat out removing them is a horrible idea.

But why?
You yourself said that resources are no concern, and not needed.
Most jobs have their own specific ressource and are in no need for a global resource.

[Shurrikhan]

Please delete One Ilm Punch

Signed,
Every monk main in the game

Not this Monk main.

How about having things actually worth stunning, instead, and returning our control over our stance timings as we had (decently enough) in Heavensward via our woven stance-less skills? Or would we just be damned for having even a grain more difficulty and player agency in the game?