Gender locked race?

[Crushnight]

I just got figured out Yoshi P's NA shirt its really obvious now in hindsight XD Bugs bunny + motorcycle = Male Bunny Race. He could've gotten a Jessica Rabbit or Lola Bunny shirt instead. The most obtuse he ever got with his shirts is the spiderman one :P
FYI ik i am just grabbing anything i can to want the male bunbois in i gotta hope dagnabbit

[BillyKaplan]

(Then again, Adkiragh got found by his tribesmen because somehow word got all the way back to Reunion that there was someone by that name working in Idyllshire. I don't think the writers pay much attention to distances on the map. Don't let the facts get in the way of a good story...?)

They did lampshade it by including adventurers in the narrative, mind. And wherever civilized the WoL goes, they make sure we know other adventurers can reach as well. They also used Reunion, which was established as an information hub both among the tribes of the steppe, as well as in and out of the steppe. Story wise, it's solid, if a bit overwhelming. I'm more concerned with how little time it seems to take to make the trip...
That said, Ishgard's been at war with the dragons for a literal millennium. That's the sort of stereotype that gets itself to the other end of the world. People might not know a damn thing about Eorzea, let alone Ishgard specifically, other than "oh they hate dragons".

[Gwenorai]

-snip-

See, this is what gets me. If we go off by his history then he shouldn't be scared to go 'Oh, there's no male Viera.' If dropping disappointing news is something he's prepared to do, then why isn't he doing it?

Why would the blow be lessened in Japan Fanfest? Yoshida doesn't understand English, it'd be much easier for him to take hate when he honestly doesn't understand what the people are saying? I think it'd be a lot more of an issue to say it in your homeland where they have the same nuances, language and all that. How would saying it in Japan make it better or easier? How would disappointing your original fanbase be easier? I'm not saying all of them are going to be up in arms about this, but you get my idea?

As you've repeated, 'he's never strayed from saying it wasn't ready' - okay, then I have to ask, has he strayed from delivering bad news and just strung it along or just got it out of the way right then and there?

He could have easily have said 'It's gender locked' and someone would ask 'Oh are the males getting a new race then?' and he could just have said the very same thing. 'Wait till JapanFanfest.' and we'd still be in the same boat - just we wouldn't be on this horrid cliff hanger. Yeah people would kick up a fuss, but he'd still get the same questions come Japanfanfest. 'Why didn't you add them in. Why did you pick this race.' All that's different here is that there are a few steps out of place.

Unless it was done for really sly reasons they want the preorders and then folks can't cancel their preorders after the bad news due to the early items we get, so when the bad news does hit - we can't cancel our preorders or something silly like that; which I don't think is possible?

There is something extremely out of character to add a gender locked playable race that no one asked for. You say that adding Male Viera is a bigger gamble and I have to ask, how is adding another random race that isn't even established yet in both FF14 or FF in general? If it's not Ronso - which it isn't if the leaker is correct - then the only Race it could be is Rev. I don't believe anyone asked for Rev. So, this boils down to it being a completely new race. A completely new feline race - when we already have one in the game, instead now we're just going backwards and it's going to be a 'reverse' of the moon miqote, only now the females are disallowed.

A completely new feline gender locked race, which as of right now there are zero ties into the story. Unless they're going to randomly introduce this new race between now and Japan Fanfest. If someone can confirm if there's going to be a big new story update soon during that time I would love to know. Honestly forget if we're getting a story update or it's just Eureka patches.

Anyway, the thing is, from what I gather people like to play characters that not only look good but also the history of that race appeals to them. Usually, they establish this by having an NPC character that is tied into the game so you can see the in-game model. See how they move, see how they talk, the emotional scale and etc. Then we get the history and the lore and we think, oh, this works.

Right now Lupin has been seen more than this mysterious cat. Lupin right now has more of a connection with the userbase than this unknown Bara cat - that isn't Ronso.

No, the only thing I've seen linked into anything cat-like during this whole expansion was; Byakko Humanoid form, Fat Cat Leaks and that one dude who was obsessed over the cuteness of cats during the year of the pig celebration. Zero lions.

I just don't understand how Viera is more of a gamble than. Race nobody asked for + Gender lock. Rather than, Viera isn't gender locked but some people don't like how the male looks. The first one is a double whammy. While some may like the new race; it's not only going to irritate those who hate the gender lock, those who hate the fact there's no male Viera - and the fact adding ANOTHER feline race is just going to crap on Miqo'te. If their logic is 'male miqo'te is most popular so add another cat' then why on earth didn't they just add more customisation into the CC?
--

Can someone refresh my mind on how Aura was introduced? Or rather, when did they establish the fact this 'race' existed before we actually rolled into the expansion.

Edit; Sorry for the huge block of text, and again this isn't supposed to come across as aggressive, just thought I'd be clear on that.

[Crushnight]

Can someone refresh my mind on how Aura was introduced? Or rather, when did they establish the fact this 'race' existed before we actually rolled into the expansion.

Yugiri was introduced in 2.2 having her face covered (can't remember if they hid her tail as well back then they don't now so idk :s) people surmised that she would be a then unknown race and hails from wherever Doma was whether Yugiri's race was going to be playable was up in the air but given they choose to hide her face people assumed we would, males were ofc way more up in the air than females at that point too fast forward to Tokyo fan fest 2014 where they reveal the new race Au Ra with both clans and the same lore as the CC gives.
We actually have as much lore on the Viera as we did Au Ra with where they live and how they function as a society but we got this in December 2014 so much earlier than we did Viera and we also got clan differences at the same time so if anything they are behind by a lot compared to Au Ra but have a more established origin at the time of their reveal.

[Kupocoubo]

To be fair, they also said that the male developers were "too uncomfortable" to design the outfits, and that they were handing them to the female designers.

How fragile.

[Liale]

While I agree with a lot of what you wrote (though Yugiri's "excuse" about her mask still bugs me, especially since she makes no effort to hide her tail) I would be surprised if a Raen living in Doma is aware of what happened to one Xaela tribe of many, who left the Steppe and came to a grim fate two continents away. Even for other Xaela, they probably just never knew what happened to them, unless Sid sent them word of it.

(Then again, Adkiragh got found by his tribesmen because somehow word got all the way back to Reunion that there was someone by that name working in Idyllshire. I don't think the writers pay much attention to distances on the map. Don't let the facts get in the way of a good story...?)

I don't know how it is shown as in game now, but back before the big reveal Yugiri's tail was hidden in cloth and her horns were also not shaped like au ra horns at all when covered in cloth.

[Shippuu]

To me its less about being optimistic and more the glaring lack of an alternative: Theres nothing pointing to a catlike race pre JP fanfest. Its not even just a lack of a t-shirt, theres absolutely zero hints in game and zero hints in the lorebook. Zip. Zilch. Nada.

There's zero hints to the vast majority of things added in expansions. Where's the rule that everything has to have some hint to being added? Where was the hint of the Vath, Vanu Vanu, Kojin, Ananta, Namazu, Nu Mou, Pixies, Dwarves? These are all new races added to the game out of no-where with zero hints or clues leading up to them until they were straight up announced (in before they're somehow different because they're beast tribes).

Au Ra were implemented with a complete lack of lore and a complete lack of actual integration. All we had for them was that Yugiri was one and they were from the Far East (and a small mention in the Wind-Up Odin flavor text), and Sidurgu was from a group that came to Eorzea and got wiped out by Ishgardians. The majority of Au Ra lore for Heavensward came from Koji's naming convention post on the forums. We didn't get any kind of actual integration for Au Ra until the expansion AFTER Heavensward. A new unannounced race could be no different. We come across stuff all the time that hadn't existed to us before but the setting acts like they've been around the whole time.

BLU being limited was cushioned by BLU being released pre-expac vs being a selling feature of the expac. It was also revealed to be limited then and there, instead of waiting till patchnotes to deal with the fallout.

And the announcement of a new race and that Viera+new race are genderlocked won't be addressed when it's announced? It couldn't possibly be why Yoshida is refusing to comment on if male viera are confirmed? That they have plans to go into more detail when they reveal something else?

He also specifically said his tshirt choices are complete happenstance and never had anything to do with announcements in that same exact press session lol

He's always joked that the shirts don't mean anything and we know it's a joke, it's obvious. That doesn't somehow invalidate that he said he wants there to be more surprises and he doesn't want to give hints away for everything coming.

The manbunny outfit came to be becuase a niche group of people locked their legs and would. not. stop. bugging. A playable race reaches far more than ppl wanting a gold saucer set. To say PAX Q&A's would have a new staple demand would be an understatement.

It took a considerable time (years) to finally get the male bunny outfit put into the game, and it's rarely used. If anything that's a knock against it that despite people being vocal about it, doesn't mean it's something a majority of players want. And considering the majority of the time the Q&A's have their questions pre-screened, it's easy for him avoid having to deal with that question outside of direct interviews. And again, Blue Mage is going to be the same situation. He knows how to handle Q&A's and interviews, he's shown he's quite skilled and avoiding answering things or explaining his reasoning even if it's unpopular.

[Shippuu]

While I agree with a lot of what you wrote (though Yugiri's "excuse" about her mask still bugs me, especially since she makes no effort to hide her tail) I would be surprised if a Raen living in Doma is aware of what happened to one Xaela tribe of many, who left the Steppe and came to a grim fate two continents away. Even for other Xaela, they probably just never knew what happened to them, unless Sid sent them word of it.

(Then again, Adkiragh got found by his tribesmen because somehow word got all the way back to Reunion that there was someone by that name working in Idyllshire. I don't think the writers pay much attention to distances on the map. Don't let the facts get in the way of a good story...?)

I think you're forgetting that Yugiri is a ninja. She's connected to the other ninja's who have a gigantic spy network across the realms. She has made many statements about having her shinobi bring her information or sow unrest elsewhere. She isn't just some random Au Ra, she's essentially Doma's spymaster. If anyone would know detailed information about the goings on around the world, it'd be her.

[Shippuu]

See, this is what gets me. If we go off by his history then he shouldn't be scared to go 'Oh, there's no male Viera.' If dropping disappointing news is something he's prepared to do, then why isn't he doing it?

I'd say because revealing 2 races (one of which is a complete surprise for the most part unless you buy into leaks) is revealing too much at a single fanfest? They saw an opportunity to do a surprise reveal at the last fanfest.

Why would the blow be lessened in Japan Fanfest? Yoshida doesn't understand English, it'd be much easier for him to take hate when he honestly doesn't understand what the people are saying? I think it'd be a lot more of an issue to say it in your homeland where they have the same nuances, language and all that. How would saying it in Japan make it better or easier? How would disappointing your original fanbase be easier? I'm not saying all of them are going to be up in arms about this, but you get my idea?

If anything, the blow wouldn't be lessened in japan considering the JP fanfest this year is about 3-4 times as many people showing up as the EU fanfest, with supposedly 15,000 attendees coming.
And we've been over it a few times now, no matter what they announce it's going to be a disappointment to some group or another. It's not like people are going to rush the stage if they don't get what they want. He doesn't have to directly interact with them when he's on stage, even if they start booing him (which the Japanese audience is probably less likely to do compared to western audiences who tend to be a lot more vocal).

As you've repeated, 'he's never strayed from saying it wasn't ready' - okay, then I have to ask, has he strayed from delivering bad news and just strung it along or just got it out of the way right then and there?

Add-on support and FC primal summoning are what come to mind first. These were features talked about as being in development and/or promised. That then didn't get any sort of announcement of bad news that they had been put on hold indefinitely until much later when asked directly about them in interviews. (We ultimately got some kind of primal summoning I think in Heaven on High though).

He could have easily have said 'It's gender locked' and someone would ask 'Oh are the males getting a new race then?' and he could just have said the very same thing. 'Wait till JapanFanfest.' and we'd still be in the same boat

Not really, because that's still pretty much a confirmation. The way he's answered the situation currently puts male Viera firmly in the ??? territory. There's nothing concrete confirming it and nothing confirming they won't happen. Only outside substantial evidence points to one thing or the other.

Yeah people would kick up a fuss, but he'd still get the same questions come Japanfanfest. 'Why didn't you add them in. Why did you pick this race.' All that's different here is that there are a few steps out of place.

Except it would have one, created a lot more negativity right before they opened pre-orders, and two, severely hindered the shock/surprise of a new race reveal, especially after they've been going on saying "This is probably the last race". There would be no point in setting up that misdirection to then just confirm it isn't by saying viera are the last playable race.

Not to mention, there would be people not only upset that there's no male viera, but then people who would take their comments of "probably the last race" as very literal (which has already happened, you can see it everywhere) and then you'd have even more people up in arms for that reason, because they would be stating that the last race is only gender locked and that's a bigger no-no than two genderlocked races (one male, on female).

There is something extremely out of character to add a gender locked playable race that no one asked for.

Says who? Did anyone ask for Au Ra, specifically?
They did polling before 2.0 launched about future races the players would like to see. A mamallian demi-beastman race got the most votes (although they listed Viera as an example which I believe Yoshida commented on at one point wishing he didn't use Viera as an example because he felt it swayed the results). After that, outside of more clans and mixed races, Reptilian beastmen, and reptilian demi-beastmen got the next highest votes. So, Yoshida went with the reptilian demi-beastman option for Au Ra, now they're adding another race and he'd consider that poll again, looping back to mamallian demi-beastmen. He picked the Viera which were for sure wanted, but that doesn't illiminate the possibility that a lot of those people might have wanted a demi-beastmen race that isn't Viera.

He may feel like doing a gender-locked option is the best way for him to try and take a shot at a unique demi-beastman race for this game (since Miqo'te were basically remnants of FFXI, and Viera are from Tactics/12.) He may simply want to make a race that's truly unique to Final Fantasy XIV like the Au Ra, while still giving players something they really wanted (Female Viera). I wouldn't blame him because he's the director of the game, in the end it's his vision and if he wants to make his mark than by all means he should. He shouldn't have to cater and only add races from other games he didn't make.

They would also still have the option to later do male Viera anyways. if the blowback was THAT bad (but it probably wouldn't be).

You say that adding Male Viera is a bigger gamble and I have to ask, how is adding another random race that isn't even established yet in both FF14 or FF in general?

It's not really that it's a bigger gamble, they're just about the same gamble. Except Viera comes with the blowback if it's not what people imagined in their head. A new race has no preconcieved expectations based on imaginary concepts in people's heads. Everyone has their own version of what male viera look like in their head and will be just as disappointed if they don't get their version. A new race is no different to them than if they got Viera flavored in a way they didn't like.

So male viera are by no means a safe bet, and will come with blowback no matter how they're implemented. It's Yoshida's choice to either do that, or go with something new that some players may end up liking more than male Viera anyways.

A completely new feline gender locked race, which as of right now there are zero ties into the story. Unless they're going to randomly introduce this new race between now and Japan Fanfest.

See my previous post regarding this. Races don't have to be teased or have breadcrumbs leading into them. Au Ra were implemented with virtually nothing and the setting didn't notice them until the expansion after they were added as a playable race.

Anyway, the thing is, from what I gather people like to play characters that not only look good but also the history of that race appeals to them. Usually, they establish this by having an NPC character that is tied into the game so you can see the in-game model. See how they move, see how they talk, the emotional scale and etc.

Yugiri's entire face was hidden until basically after the reveal of the Au Ra. And her model used Miqo'te animations. So, did a pretty poor job of demonstrating any of that.

Then we get the history and the lore and we think, oh, this works.

All of the Au Ra lore came from an info dump from Koji on the forums in the naming convention post. It wouldn't be until 2 years later that Au Ra as a race were really fleshed out in game.

I just don't understand how Viera is more of a gamble than. Race nobody asked for

Again, back up to the polls. People did ask for it in a vague enough way.

[Crushnight]

There's zero hints to the vast majority of things added in expansions. Where's the rule that everything has to have some hint to being added? Where was the hint of the Vath, Vanu Vanu, Kojin, Ananta, Namazu, Nu Mou, Pixies, Dwarves? These are all new races added to the game out of no-where with zero hints or clues leading up to them until they were straight up announced (in before they're somehow different because they're beast tribes).

Au Ra were implemented with a complete lack of lore and a complete lack of actual integration. All we had for them was that Yugiri was one and they were from the Far East (and a small mention in the Wind-Up Odin flavor text), and Sidurgu was from a group that came to Eorzea and got wiped out by Ishgardians. The majority of Au Ra lore for Heavensward came from Koji's naming convention post on the forums. We didn't get any kind of actual integration for Au Ra until the expansion AFTER Heavensward. A new unannounced race could be no different. We come across stuff all the time that hadn't existed to us before but the setting acts like they've been around the whole time.

This is what we get on beast tribes(before expansion):

1. Name
2. A sentence on their nature ie pixies are mischievous but not as bad as moogles
3. Their primal Deity if they have one
4. Area they live in
5. Use preexisting lore like lamias for ananta

This is what we get with a new playable race(before expansion):

1. An npc in game to represent/reveal in the last main patch of the current expansion
2. Clan info
3. gender info
4. their society structure
5. Where they come from

Both are handled differently and are treated differently by SE themselves if we were to get an unknown race we would get a surge of information on them at Tokyo on top of more Viera information. By this point we had more information on Au Ra but Viera are going to be better implemented with how they have set them up something i feel SE learned from Au Ra implementation being oh there here neat. So i then gotta ask why would SE repeat the Au Ra mistake while simultaneously also avoiding it its weird :s