Gender locked race?

[Pixiehawk]

I think the "unlock it later" crew are saying they release females, then the players backlash because of course they will, and then se will be like "oh people actually wanted this??? We had no ideaa!!!" or "We couldn't finish this race in time so buy it now and we'll update it later because race releases can be partially release gated like raid releases" and then they finish the race later like they did for male miqo'te, female roegadyn, and female highlander.

So, the next expansion after? I guess that would make more sense, but people would still freak.

[Shippuu]

Ah, in that case your prior statements like are also merely assumptions without anything resembling hard evidence to back them up. Which according to your little wall of text here makes them effectively meaningless and inconsequential.

You're this close to getting it. Assumptions and speculation are by their very nature without proof (that's what assume means afterall). So yes, my assumptions are not necessarily backed up by hard proof. The difference is, when I'm asking for evidence it's when people have made all encompassing statements, not necessarily just assumptions.
For example, when you said the FFXIV devs unlocked the 1.0 genderlocks because they were damaging to the game, you made a definitive statement. I asked for proof because there is a myriad of reasons why they might have done that, instead of one definitive reason you put out there.
This is why I often use words such as likely, possibly, potentially, maybe. etc. etc. Instead of hard language that confirms this or that, I don't say the devs will do X because of Y, only that they may do X because of Y.

Except you haven't provided evidence for any of your statements in any of your posts to anybody in this thread.

Demonstrably false, but ok. I've certainly provided evidence for any hard claims I've made. I've also directed to plenty of evidence that supports my assumptions as well.

You continue to make baseless assumption after baseless assumption, from market shares in China/Korea

Bringing up that FFXIV exists in the Chinese and Korean markets, as a point that the NA/JP/EU communities/playerbase aren't the only ones that matter in factoring into the decisions of the future content implemented into the game is far from baseless assumption.
Does FFXIV exist in a Chinese and Korean market? Yes. Does the communities of these two regions matter when considering what gets added to the game? Yes. Could different things appeal to those different communities that might not appeal to western ones? Yes. So in what way is that assumption unfounded?

to the reasons why Square Enix removed the 1.0 genderlocks,

An assumption based on the fact that they didn't rectify the genderlocks in their prior MMO, FFXI. And that they didn't rectify those genderlocks when they developed FFXIV 1.0. And that a game failing so tremendously that it damaged a 20+ year old brand and them making an unheard of revamp to an MMO would motivate them to go above and beyond and do things they might not have normally considered a priority before but knew it would earn them favor and shine positively on them at a time when they desperately needed it. So again, not an unfounded assumption at all. And again, I'm not saying they only did the gender unlocking because the game failed, but it was certainly a factor into their decision to do it, and even after doing it the director was on record as being still open to the idea of a future gender locked race meaning he hadn't completely written off the idea.

and then turn around demand evidence the minute somebody posts an opinion you dislike.

Once again, I ask for evidence, not demand it (you love to just misattribute things and words to me, huh. How many times do I have to correct you on that). And those requests are when someone has made a claim (not just an assumption) that the devs, yoshida, SE, whoever did or didn't do something or their motivations.

explain how a gender-locked race would boost market shares for Square Enix in China and Korea and provide evidence to back it up. Otherwise you are just blowing smoke.

I'll do that as soon as you prove how a gender-locked race would hurt market shares currently, with evidence to back it up since that's what your claim was that started this in the first place. You asserted that it "definitely damaged the 1.0 version" (A absolute statement, not an assumption in case you needed that spelled out):

Gender-locked races definitely damaged the 1.0 version of the game enough that one of the first things Yoshida did after taking over the project was remove them. Or have you forgotten that?

And I said you would be hard pressed to find solid evidence backing that up. Just like you'd be hard pressed to find evidence of such a thing significantly damaging any MMO because there's a ton of factors to be had on whether an MMO succeeds or fails and without extensive data and polling it'd be difficult to determine the percentage of that damage could be attributed to genderlocks (if any at all).
You don't get to make an assertion and then try to get around having to back it up when called for proof and try to goad me into providing proof of a counter-claim. Who's the one being weasely now?

And if the director does something that seriously damages the game's reputation and sales they can and will be replaced by management. Something Yoshida is well aware of considering how he got his current position and what happened to his predecessor. And we are back to the fact you haven't proved that there won't be a major backlash for them re-introducing gender-locks.

Yoshida has essentially pulled a miracle with Final Fantasy XIV. He relaunched a complete failure of a game to incredible success that has only grown. He was promoted to the board of directors and is head of the MMO division for SE at this point. He would have to butcher the current game so extremely that it would fail completely once again to be even considered to be removed/step down.
There would certainly be a backlash for this decision, but I'd be hard pressed to ever consider it major, or even damaging to the game. I don't have to prove there won't be a backlash because I've never made the assertion that there wouldn't be.
However, you're the one using language impying this decision (if it even happens) would somehow damage the game so badly that Yoshida would have to be replaced, and that is one wild presumption you have, and dare I use your own words, a baseless assumption.

The official reveal were they said they were having to significantly rework the coding for the helmets and footgear to accommodate the Viera and that they were still in the process of doing so?

Oh good, it's not just me who has words put into their mouth by you. They never said they significantly reworked coding for helmets and footgear, in fact their exact statement was: "We're having to make some changes to systems, such as how helmets work."
Given we don't know the full extent of what changes these are, we cannot say if they're significantly changed or not.

You know, did it ever occur to you the reason they didn't show case the male Viera might be because Fran's armor was the only gear set they had that didn't cause the game to crash when they slapped it on a Viera character model?

Of course male viera still being in development and not ready to show is a possible explanation that's been brought numerous times. However Yoshida has had no problem in the past telling his audience that he cannot show something because it is not ready. He even did exactly that just prior to the Viera announcement about the 8-man raid. It is very telling that for some reason, he chose not to say that at all when he has done so many times in the past. This should be something to consider and is another item in the pile of things that could point to there not being male viera announced.

So on one hand you admit that the Dramaturge's statement doesn't necessarily mean there aren't any male Viera in Dalmasca but in the next you still say it should be considered as evidence they won't show up?

Because it is not hard proof either way. It both confirms male Viera exist, but also paints them in a light that explains why we may never see one in the game. It has never been an absolute declaration that male viera aren't coming, but it absolutely could be a big hint that they aren't, especially when compiled with the big picture of everything else.

The plot point we are heading into the Ra'tika Greatwood and your assumption that we will have some exception to the rule about them attacking outsiders while heading into the woods are two very separate things. After all, to make contact and travel with the head of the Ishgardian Heretics, Iceheart, we first had to head into their territory and get attacked by her followers.

And we know absolutely nothing about why we are heading into the Greatwood. So all of it assumptions. You assuming we will be attacked by male viera is no different than assuming we won't be because we will likely be invitied or some other circumstance that makes not everything hostile to us. If male Viera aren't going to be in the game, than the latter is more plausible, if they are going to be in, then the former will likely happen.

So you think they will get into a life and death struggle with the Empire over their homeland, demand our help, take us into their homeland to fight the Empire and somehow we will never once see male Viera, who form the main line of defense of said homeland, while fighting the Empire in the homeland, which is where all male Viera reside lore-wise? And you were the one who called other people in this thread delusional?

I won't say exactly what kind of struggle we will be involved in within the Greatwood, but yes, it's absolutely possible for them to have us go through the entire area and never see a single male Viera and there's plenty of absolutely valid reasons as to why that may be. For starters, one zone is not the entire area on the map. We go to zones all the time but they are far from being 100% of the land mass. We will likely only be given access to a small part of the overall woods. If we're only involved in one part of the woods, they could easily write in something happening that draws the male viera to a different part we will never go to.
Not unlike past Ivalice games that had players in Viera lands but still never encountering male Viera because they were elsewhere. It's not a hard idea to grasp that there's a myriad of reasons they can write up to explain how we would never see them even when venturing into their lands.

[Tharne]

I won't say exactly what kind of struggle we will be involved in within the Greatwood, but yes, it's absolutely possible for them to have us go through the entire area and never see a single male Viera and there's plenty of absolutely valid reasons as to why that may be.

Nu Mou Beast Tribe captured them and made a Viera stew to quench their Primal's hunger/thirst for rabbit meat/blood.

[redcurrant18]

way too long to read

Learn to summarize your posts and stop with the massive text walls please. It takes you way too much to say so little.

[Shippuu]

Learn to summarize your posts and stop with the massive text walls please. It takes you way too much to say so little.

[Karl0217]

You're this close to getting it....This is why I often use words such as likely, possibly, potentially, maybe. etc. etc. Instead of hard language that confirms this or that, I don't say the devs will do X because of Y, only that they may do X because of Y.

I got news for you, just because you include the adjectives "likely, possibly, potentially, maybe" in your claims doesn't magically make them not claims. Nor does it provide you with a "Get Out Of Jail Free" card about having to back them up. That is not how debates work.

I've also directed to plenty of evidence that supports my assumptions as well.

Then you should have no problem providing evidence to back up your assumption that the gender-locks didn't damage the 1.0 release or them removing the gender-locks for the 2.0 release had nothing to do with them knowing how poorly the gender locks were received.

Bringing up that FFXIV exists in the Chinese and Korean market...might not appeal to western ones? Yes. So in what way is that assumption unfounded?

You are deflecting the issue here. You made a specific claim that you think gender-locked content would expand the market shares in China/Korea and when pressed as to why you think this is you respond with an incredibly general and vague statement about the Chinese/Korean market being different. Why am I not surprised? And why do you feel the need to write a novel without actually saying anything new?

An assumption based on the fact that they didn't rectify the genderlocks in their prior MMO, FFXI.

That was Hiromichi Tanaka's decision and when he tried to import the same model into XIV it crashed and burned. It was one of the reasons he was replaced with Naoki Yoshida who immediately undid the gender-locks in XIV. So you want to base your assumptions on what Yoshida's predecessor did as opposed to Yoshida's actions, i.e. removing the gender locks?

Do you seriously think basing an assumption on what Person A will do by observing what person B did while ignoring what A did the minute they took over from B ain't just making an unfounded assumption?

You don't get to make an assertion and then try to get around having to back it up when called for proof and try to goad me into providing proof of a counter-claim. Who's the one being weasely now?

I am not the one going around making claims and then saying because I included the adjectives "likely, possibly, potentially, maybe" I don't have to defend them or provide evidence to back them up while demanding everybody else provide evidence for their statements. That would be you.

Nor am I the guy writing a book where three sentences would suffice in order obfuscate just how little meat there is to my statements. That would also be you.

There would certainly be a backlash for this decision, but I'd be hard pressed to ever consider it major, or even damaging to the game.

That is nothing more than your personal subjective opinion and considering you think basing your assumptions on what Naoki Yoshida will do on what Hiromichi Tanaka did is valid reasoning I doubt you are anywhere in ballpark when it comes to accuracy.

Oh good, it's not just me who has words put into their mouth by you. They never said they significantly reworked coding for helmets and footgear, in fact their exact statement was: "We're having to make some changes to systems, such as how helmets work."
Given we don't know the full extent of what changes these are, we cannot say if they're significantly changed or not.

Are you seriously going to sit there and argue semantics after acknowledging that yes, they are still making coding changes accommodate the Viera gear wise? Any coding change to a system that impacts every player characters gear and the gear of every NPC in the game is by its very nature significant. It is telling that all the models they showcased wore Fran's outfit and no other outfit, which heavily implies the changes to the other gear's coding isn't finished yet.

However Yoshida has had no problem in the past telling his audience that he cannot show something because it is not ready. He even did exactly that just prior to the Viera announcement about the 8-man raid.

And when asked about the male Viera he specifically said there was another Fan Fest in Tokyo, which is the kind of thing a developer would say if he had something to show but couldn't show it just yet because he didn't have a stable build of it.

And we know absolutely nothing about why we are heading into the Greatwood. So all of it assumptions....If we're only involved in one part of the woods, they could easily write in something happening that draws the male viera to a different part we will never go to.

So pretty much your response to lore that looks like it setting up a possible hostile confrontation between us and the Viera is another "well maybe they all got lured away before we got there...."

[cicatriz313]

And when asked about the male Viera he specifically said there was another Fan Fest in Tokyo, which is the kind of thing a developer would say if he had something to show but couldn't show it just yet because he didn't have a stable build of it.

So pretty much your response to lore that looks like it setting up a possible hostile confrontation between us and the Viera is another "well maybe they all got lured away before we got there...."

Lol all you do is speculate too, dude. What makes the fact that he said wait for Tokyo mean that he's saying male Viera aren't done yet? Literally nothing. In fact, the question he was answering specifically asked if we should wait for Tokyo and he just was coy and said oh yeah there is a fan fest in Tokyo huh? Like they purposefully avoided mentioning male Viera PERIOD in the fan fest, and have done so since.

Also just because you read something into the lore that's on the page doesn't make it true. What in the lore specifically states that we will get into a conflict with the Viera? It states they are isolationist by nature but times are changing, that's about it. Like Fran already came to us and helped us get into the Golmore Jungle... didn't see any male Viera there.

[redcurrant18]

Like Fran already came to us and helped us get into the Golmore Jungle... didn't see any male Viera there.

Fran was the only Viera in the jungle. It is misleading to compare how they handled that small section of the jungle to what will eventually come in Shadowbringers.

[cicatriz313]

Fran was the only Viera in the jungle. It is misleading to compare how they handled that small section of the jungle to what will eventually come in Shadowbringers.

I mean, why would she have been the only Viera in that jungle? Don't Viera live in the Golmore Jungle? How do you know she was the only Viera in that jungle? My point is that just because we are going into a jungle doesn't mean we are 100% getting into conflict.

[Gwenorai]

Lol all you do is speculate too, dude. What makes the fact that he said wait for Tokyo mean that he's saying male Viera aren't done yet? Literally nothing. In fact, the question he was answering specifically asked if we should wait for Tokyo and he just was coy and said oh yeah there is a fan fest in Tokyo huh? Like they purposefully avoided mentioning male Viera PERIOD in the fan fest, and have done so since.

Also just because you read something into the lore that's on the page doesn't make it true. What in the lore specifically states that we will get into a conflict with the Viera? It states they are isolationist by nature but times are changing, that's about it. Like Fran already came to us and helped us get into the Golmore Jungle... didn't see any male Viera there.

I believe Fran states you're being watched by them but you don't see them? Or was that FF12? I don't know, the fact of the matter is they don't attack if a Viera is with the party. The confrontation doesn't come from the lore, it comes from Yoshida specifically telling us that the blaze in the trailer is located in the sacred home of the Viera - he didn't need to share that information. Now it's certainly possible that something may happen where we may gain free passage, and a female Viera will escort us through the wood. And after that, we fully earn the blessing to wander freely without an escort. Of course, this is where the whole - well a confrontation seems likely, no? If they're being attacked then the Viera will respond in kind, their males first. The idea is that if a male Viera doesn't attack us, then we will come across one who is attacking the enemy.

The other side of this; people think that we won't see a male at all. And that the attack on the wood may not stir the males into action - a retcon of their lore. Or, that the males would simply act unseen in a fight against a shared enemy. Or, that all of the males have simply vanished. Since if there were NPC males then there is likely to be playable males. Without playable males then it's likely there will be no male NPCs. Or there will be male NPCs, and the release of playable male Viera is simply a matter of time due to armour limitations etc.

Are you saying we are setting fire to their home? That we are helping them defend their home? Do you have absolutely no idea because no one does? Yeah, not sure what point you're trying to make. Maybe just go back to posting pictures of hot bunny boys.

And this is simply uncalled for. Obviously, we didn't set fire to their homes, the point they're making is that the males who are known to be trigger happy will be even more aggressive to outsiders during a time of war. Example; Aura's were attacked by Ishgardians because the Ishgardians thought they were draconic - this hate came from the war.

Regarding the whole; they don't live in the village. Well, that hardly means anything. They don't live in groups, they don't interact with the community; but it doesn't mean they can't live close to the village and/or around it - they simply do not live in the hub. An add on would be Fran's words. 'They are watching us' meaning there's more than one in just that small area watching them.