Should they remove positionals at this point?

[ElHeggunte]

Why do you assume that people not liking positionals have a comprehension issue? I think everyone speaking about it in this thread knows how it works.
If someone doesn't like eating broccolis, explaining them what broccolis are won't suddenly make them like it.

Besides, your picture shows a target dummy that never moves. This is very different in actual combat when bosses spin faster that freaking beyblades.

I'm not making a blanket assumption about anything. I'm asking a question, not making a statement. Now my question is based on what I've personally seen people lamenting about positionals on the forums and how I've seen people play in-game, but that's it. Maybe some of the posters in this thread do indeed know how it works, but I can't tell because they haven't actually said why they don't like it. Hence my question because I'm legitimately curious.

Fair enough that the target dummy doesn't move (which is an odd contention because the point of the image and text is to illustrate how easy it is to adjust to a spinning target while still landing most of your positionals and not having to run two miles around the target's entire hitbox every time it moves), but most mobs in the game don't move that much anyway outside of brief phases or specific periodic attacks. Sometimes you might not hit your position because you have to avoid an AoE, but that's not an issue unique to melee or positionals. However, if the mob is constantly "spinning faster than a beyblade" to the point where you can't land most of your attacks properly, that's an issue with your tank. Give him five across the eyes and tell him to sit still and celebrate the fact that most tanks do a pretty good job of holding mobs in one place.

[Tigerlilley]

Except that they're not really. They may not be completely broken and unplayable, but they're not ideal either.

Positionals are an interesting idea, but the reality is that they're often more annoying than fun or challenging. Boss has back AoEs, or spends a lot of time moving, or randomly turning, or whatever? That's not skill, just frustration.

Completely disagree. I've raided Monk through since T1 through all Savages and Ultimates. Positionals are both challenging and rewarding to get right as well as being an integral part of melee jobs. I swear to god no one on this forum is happy until everyone is a 1,2,3 rotation you can just faceroll and no one needs to be accountable for their own gameplay. Waaah, everything is too hard. Nerf jobs. Nerf savage. Nerf primals. Nerf story trials. Sigmascape Savage was hands down the worst raid tier in this game, boring, uninspired, clearable within a week. 2 of those fights were no positionals and it didn't make either of them better.

If the boss has back aoes or spends time moving, you learn the fight and where to optimise True North. If its randomly turning, talk to your tank.

No wonder dev's only listen to the Japanese. They actually take the time to learn and practice their jobs.

[Arkdra]

Maybe some of the posters in this thread do indeed know how it works, but I can't tell because they haven't actually said why they don't like it. Hence my question because I'm legitimately curious.

So I hate monk. Second worst class in the game to play imo, only beaten out by blm. And the reason I hate it so much is that it is the posterchild of melee dps problems, 2/3's of which are positional related.

1. Positionals are garbage whenever you don't have a tank around.
2. Positionals are garbage when you have a bad tank around.
3. Ramp up time, but it's unrelated to positionals, mostly just stuck it here for the curious.

Since I main Sam, if I end up doing something sync'd where I don't have a kenki gauge, I don't really miss not having to bother to move to be honest. I played WoW for years before this game as classes without any positioning requirement and it was still fun. Do I really want them to be removed? Eh not really, but I am tepidly more for cutting them than I am for keeping them just because it doesn't affect my personal play experience but it might make randos in dungeons less terrible 5% of the time and make my life less miserable the once in a blue moon I get some nerd tank who parks the enemies butt in a fire.

[Aomine1992]

Positionals are Garbo lol honestly its almost always easier to be range, Caster or physical there Is literally no fight hard on us.

But this raid tier alone has been complete utter trash for melee, I also play Monk and fights like midgard I just won't do as melee. Most bosses this tier just wants to always turn or fly away for what seems like hours at a time.

The new ex trial is a huge example of ranged privilege in my opinion, that mofo spins like crazy, teleports back and forth. It drives me nuts on Monk.

I think the problem is less about Positionals and more so about SE catering to range with the occasional simple mechanic for us to do.

[Brightamethyst]

I swear to god no one on this forum is happy until everyone is a 1,2,3 rotation you can just faceroll and no one needs to be accountable for their own gameplay.

Literally no one has ever asked for that. The issue here is that there's a big difference between "challenging but fun" and "complicated for the sake of being complicated", and unfortunately a large part of the game's combat systems fall solidly into the second category.

[Tigerlilley]

If one skill per combo has a positional (nin drg sam)
or literally has a 123 flank 123 back repeat (monk)

is too complicated for you? Then the issue isn't the design.

[ElHeggunte]

So I hate monk. Second worst class in the game to play imo, only beaten out by blm. And the reason I hate it so much is that it is the posterchild of melee dps problems, 2/3's of which are positional related.

1. Positionals are garbage whenever you don't have a tank around.
2. Positionals are garbage when you have a bad tank around.
3. Ramp up time, but it's unrelated to positionals, mostly just stuck it here for the curious.

Since I main Sam, if I end up doing something sync'd where I don't have a kenki gauge, I don't really miss not having to bother to move to be honest. I played WoW for years before this game as classes without any positioning requirement and it was still fun. Do I really want them to be removed? Eh not really, but I am tepidly more for cutting them than I am for keeping them just because it doesn't affect my personal play experience but it might make randos in dungeons less terrible 5% of the time and make my life less miserable the once in a blue moon I get some nerd tank who parks the enemies butt in a fire.

That's the kind of detailed answer I was looking for, thank you.

[Seddrinth]

Except that they're not really. They may not be completely broken and unplayable, but they're not ideal either.

Positionals are an interesting idea, but the reality is that they're often more annoying than fun or challenging. Boss has back AoEs, or spends a lot of time moving, or randomly turning, or whatever? That's not skill, just frustration.

If the boss is randomly turning then maybe you should talk to your tank and raid team to figure out the optimal strat. Many statics will place melee on certain intercardinal positions and ranged on other positions, for example, to better take advantage of melee positionals. It's really not that hard or that big of a deal to figure it out with your team.

[Seddrinth]

Literally no one has ever asked for that. The issue here is that there's a big difference between "challenging but fun" and "complicated for the sake of being complicated", and unfortunately a large part of the game's combat systems fall solidly into the second category.

Complicated? In the time it took you to type out your post you could've read the skill description for one single melee class and understood the positional requirements. Like Tigerlilly said, one positional per combo is not complicated.

[Leadleaf]

Remembering boss movements in their ability timeline in order to pre-emptively hit positionals as well as co-ordinating a team in an MMO to hold bosses to a direction was one of the more fun and involving part of being a melee. I really appreciated tanks that didn't swivel Susano, Suzaku, etc. all over the place during their certain mechanics.
I thought the most threatening part of O6S was dozing off from the total lack of aforementioned going on. Easily my least favorite raid instance this expansion.