Should they remove positionals at this point?

[Seddrinth]

Literally no one has ever asked for that. The issue here is that there's a big difference between "challenging but fun" and "complicated for the sake of being complicated", and unfortunately a large part of the game's combat systems fall solidly into the second category.

Complicated? In the time it took you to type out your post you could've read the skill description for one single melee class and understood the positional requirements. Like Tigerlilly said, one positional per combo is not complicated.

[Seddrinth]

Except that they're not really. They may not be completely broken and unplayable, but they're not ideal either.

Positionals are an interesting idea, but the reality is that they're often more annoying than fun or challenging. Boss has back AoEs, or spends a lot of time moving, or randomly turning, or whatever? That's not skill, just frustration.

If the boss is randomly turning then maybe you should talk to your tank and raid team to figure out the optimal strat. Many statics will place melee on certain intercardinal positions and ranged on other positions, for example, to better take advantage of melee positionals. It's really not that hard or that big of a deal to figure it out with your team.

[Aomine1992]

Positionals are Garbo lol honestly its almost always easier to be range, Caster or physical there Is literally no fight hard on us.

But this raid tier alone has been complete utter trash for melee, I also play Monk and fights like midgard I just won't do as melee. Most bosses this tier just wants to always turn or fly away for what seems like hours at a time.

The new ex trial is a huge example of ranged privilege in my opinion, that mofo spins like crazy, teleports back and forth. It drives me nuts on Monk.

I think the problem is less about Positionals and more so about SE catering to range with the occasional simple mechanic for us to do.

[Nora_of_Mira]

The new ex trial is a huge example of ranged privilege in my opinion, that mofo spins like crazy, teleports back and forth. It drives me nuts on Monk.

I think the problem is less about Positionals and more so about SE catering to range with the occasional simple mechanic for us to do.

It's not that bad, honestly, it just takes some practice and experimenting and full usage of your kit keep up with uptime and positionals. It's not likely the difference between a clear and a wipe, but it is a difference of like 500-700 dps (in my case at least). As DRG I learned exactly how far i had to be to not get knocked into water while keeping uptime, exactly when to spineshatter dive when the boss "randomly" jumps (its not random i found), when to elusive jump after the snake push (its the perfect distance every time). Basically had to True North on cd but i typically saved it for the snake push or when Big Chungus was about to slam his fists and the tank had the boss positioned badly.

All in all, a little experimentation went a long way for me and the same habits carried over for SAM.

Also, I find the "in or out" mechanic balances out the ranged vs melee privilege.

edit: I can likely remember other tips throughout my day. like:
- the kiji - something (checkerboard pattern AOE). his direct front and back is always safe on the first AoE and then i move to his flank, which is always safe.
- the "stack" aoe is actually just a "get in line" aoe and you can be on the boss away from the party and be perfectly fine. I see so many people stacked for this just due to safety concerns.
- if you're comfortable dodging the mechanics, go ahead and EAT that Yin-and-Yang vuln stack! only do this if it wont cost you your life, but i found the raid damage is not high enough to put you in danger (AS LONG AS you dodge every mechanic while having the vuln).
- Big Chungus is a cheeky c*nt. dont let his fists scare you.

[Mansion]

Also, I find the "in or out" mechanic balances out the ranged vs melee privilege.

*interrupts cast and runs in the donut AOE then runs out as a RDM*
Oh you shit snake I hate you.

Yeah I agree. While different in practice, it can all be brought down to the same conclusion. DPS need to analyse each fight to work on their uptime.

[Leadleaf]

Remembering boss movements in their ability timeline in order to pre-emptively hit positionals as well as co-ordinating a team in an MMO to hold bosses to a direction was one of the more fun and involving part of being a melee. I really appreciated tanks that didn't swivel Susano, Suzaku, etc. all over the place during their certain mechanics.
I thought the most threatening part of O6S was dozing off from the total lack of aforementioned going on. Easily my least favorite raid instance this expansion.

[mosaicex]

Many people want to see positionals go away for melee.
Yet I haven't ever seen anyone offer feasible alternatives for it.

[DevilsDontFly]

Even though I don't play melee DPS I feel like if they remove positionals they need to add something else in exchange. Otherwise they are going to be making melee DPS way too easy to play and way too rewarding. My reasoning is that a bad caster is a bad caster for missing something a melee dps have a little bit of help with: Rotation. While a perfect rotation is something I consider easy to be done, often times you'll see that summoner that doesn't apply dots at all, that black mage that doesn't know what blizzard IV is or that red mage that simply refuses to alternate Verholy and Verflare based on what the job demands. While every job suffer from mistakes like that, melee dps have a combo rotation highlighted to be done perfectly and in the order it is supposed to. If you take away positionals it really bottles down to being a 1, 2, 3 combo with no conditionals to it other than using self-buffs on cooldown. And while some people might say that ranged dps don't have positionals, and that's why melee dps shouldn't also; Ranged dps end up having a more supportive role throughout the fights and the way their combos work tendo to be pretty RNG. I personally don't think it's a fair comparison.

At least to me, a melee dps with perfect positionals is like that black mage that knows exactly when to use leylines and when to save it and use triple cast instead to maximize damage upkeep. It's just executed differently.

[Cerbolt]

Personally, I'd like them to go away but I understand not everyone shares that view.

[Elleia]

Many people want to see positionals go away for melee.
Yet I haven't ever seen anyone offer feasible alternatives for it.

Yes, this. Every job has downsides that make maximizing DPS a challenge. Casters need to learn fight timelines well to minimize movement, melee need to learn when the boss is going to move so they can continue to hit positionals or pop True North as needed.

Ranged physical DPS have lower overall damage potential because they don’t need to worry about movement or positionals. They are the go-to mechanic handlers on mechanics that can be baited onto a specific player for this reason. So I’d say the downsides here are (occasionally) handling specific mechanics and lower personal DPS.

Yes, melee players need to be in melee range - but honestly most casters and ranged stay in melee range for heals, unless there are mechanics that force them out. And with the gap closers/movement skills on all the melee jobs, staying in melee range almost constantly is not a problem.

Each job has something to separate highly skilled players from the rest of the pack - positionals are one of these things. Removing positionals removes a lot of the optimization melee players need to do to maximize DPS. If you can just stand completely still and wail on a boss with near 100% uptime, there needs to be a trade-off. Less damage like BRD/MCH? I doubt people would want that.