Should they remove positionals at this point?

[stormygabe]

Hopping onto this all kinds of late. Personally, I like positionals. I'm coming from GW2, which has a super active combat style (even the mages) so it's nice to play a class where I'm always moving around. I also like having to think about what I'm doing. I still have a lot to improve on, but it's a nice challenge. I do kind of agree with taking them out from solo play, but a part of me still kind of enjoys trying to land skills properly. Obviously, it doesn't work most of the time, but then I always find odd ways to entertain myself in a game.

[ChaseNetwork]

Actually, I'm kind of thinking that Positionals would allow for another kind of Ranged job that I've been theory crafting.
The bread and butter of my Sniper job is paying attention to the positioning of the boss to maximize damage.
(potencies are just examples, and not actually suggested values)
"Front Shot"
130 Potency (260 from the front)
"Flank Shot"
130 Potency (260 from the sides)
"Rear Shot"
130 Potency (260 from the rear)

Job Gauge would be the Rangefinder Gauge, which displays current distance from target enemy.

OGCD's
Doubletap
When within 10 yalms of target, your next Weaponskill hits twice. (Maybe includes a backpedal feature. Moves player backwards from target 20y or so? Sort of like Elusive Jump)
Breach
When between 11 and 19 yalms of target, dash forward 10 yalms, increase skill speed 20%
Target Locked
When equal to or greater than 20 yalms of target, Next weaponskill is a guaranteed Direct Critical hit

[Ryaz]

Actually, I'm kind of thinking that Positionals would allow for another kind of Ranged job that I've been theory crafting.
The bread and butter of my Sniper job is paying attention to the positioning of the boss to maximize damage.
(potencies are just examples, and not actually suggested values)
"Front Shot"
130 Potency (260 from the front)
"Flank Shot"
130 Potency (260 from the sides)
"Rear Shot"
130 Potency (260 from the rear)

Job Gauge would be the Rangefinder Gauge, which displays current distance from target enemy.

OGCD's
Doubletap
When within 10 yalms of target, your next Weaponskill hits twice. (Maybe includes a backpedal feature. Moves player backwards from target 20y or so? Sort of like Elusive Jump)
Breach
When between 11 and 19 yalms of target, dash forward 10 yalms, increase skill speed 20%
Target Locked
When equal to or greater than 20 yalms of target, Next weaponskill is a guaranteed Direct Critical hit

The issue with ranged positional is that it would be MUCH harder to hit them effectively than with a melee. Melee has a much smaller radius to circle around and can run through the boss if they need to. A ranged character would have to move a much further distance to hit poisitonals correctly.

[Sithconjurer]

I like think of the games fight mechanics as a distraction economy. Everyone shares one part of it. The mechanics of the fight.

Tanks tend to have simpler rotations because they need to avoid damage more, think about timing mitigation CDs and positioning the target optimally.

Healers have simpler rotations because they are watching the health of the tank. Looking for emergency healing among the party and and also fulfilling support roles.

Physical Ranged have longer more complicated fast paced rotational strings that require more focus and situational support roles because of their relaxed mobility.

Magic Ranged deal with casting lock and maintaining buff and dot uptime but get a less complicated though still nuanced rotation. So they need to manage optimal positioning more.

Melee have very strict combo systems but mostly stick to nailing ogcds and move around alot for positional attacks to get the most out of their rotations.

Of course there are hybrids in between, but I think SE did a great job with balancing the distraction economy in the game and gave every class a fair balance of stress. Now where this diverges is what of these systems works best for you to play at your best. Everyone is different. Some people like hitting skills when they glow, others like to follow the dotted line and do same sequence over and over, others like to hit the right skill at the right time, or maintain uptime of skills.

There is something for everyone and in between.

[lionelbrun]

Never liked them, yes they should be removed as well as a lot of the ability bloat

[Barraind]

I've never been a fan of positionals in any game, with maybe the exception of backstab on rogues, and even that had to be addressed in a number of games to make it work from not-the-back, or situationally from not-the-back, or from not-the-back if you took talents/aa's from it, or "back" being a 270 degree arc.

Either the class is balanced around hitting every positional, which makes fights where mobs like to spin to cast on things a nightmare and you're better off using something less reliant on them, or its balanced around positionals being a bonus and those classes are by far the best option on any fight where you can reliably hit them. The best case being where you're expected to hit a certain number of them, and fights are tuned to where you -should- hit that many, but it still ends up favoring one or the other by a large margin.

If positional damage was calculated based on client-side timing, it would be significantly better, especially when things like to spin around and take their hitboxes with them, but would be easily exploitable. As it is, ive seen plenty of trick attacks fail from as directly behind a mob as you can be just because the server sees the input and goes "naaaaaaaaaah", so they seem to be more harm than good, and weve been seeing changes made to lower the impact of positional stuttering.

[Burningskull]

I've been playing tank since the announcement of Gunbreaker and honestly I don't see how not having positionals would make DPS boring. Tanking is only boring to me cause you tend to not have that much complexity in your rotations compared to DPS. So I'm all for removing them. But I also wont really care if they leave them in.

[MorbolvampireQueen6]

No they stay unless casters can cast spells while moving around without interruption

[Orbus]

No they stay unless casters can cast spells while moving around without interruption

I mean, it kinda is like that?
Most summoner spells are instant, well, many of them are classified as "abilities" but those are just spells not on the gcd.
And while black mages have to hard cast everything normally, swift cast and triple cast lets them cast one and three spells while moving on a one minute cooldown for each buff, which lets them do it preeeetty often.
Then red mages, well they're all about chaining instant cast spells together.

[Dualgunner]

I mean, it kinda is like that?
Most summoner spells are instant, well, many of them are classified as "abilities" but those are just spells not on the gcd.
And while black mages have to hard cast everything normally, swift cast and triple cast lets them cast one and three spells while moving on a one minute cooldown for each buff, which lets them do it preeeetty often.
Then red mages, well they're all about chaining instant cast spells together.

Likewise, not all melee have the same degree of positional requirements.