Should they remove positionals at this point?

[Burningskull]

Be careful what you wish for, removing melee positionals would destroy the skill ceiling. You miss 10-20 out of 70 positionals (on a trial....) and want them all removed? I have a feeling that's not actually the reason you want them removed. Hitting positionals is the hardest and most rewarding part about playing melee dps. If I could think of one way to turn melee dps from challenging to braindead this would be number one on the list.

I've never felt compelled to post on this forum before (at least as far as I can remember) but (I'd hope) this would piss a lot of people off who care and understand how much gameplay value having positionals adds. I and many others went through the effort of learning how to deal with positionals for different fights, taking them all out would remove something so rewarding/ challenging while making the class boring to the people who learned how to do positionals before. Case in point o6s.

Not like anyone will care but the day they remove positionals is the day I quit this game. I love raiding in this game and especially on Monk, giving up positionals just so others have an easier time picking the class up is so backwards. Be careful what you wish for. The same thing happened to Warrior, they improved the job in 4.1 only to give in to the small outcry that the class was too punishing. Only to now have everyone complain that the class is now braindead (which I hold the opinion of also). I honestly wouldn't be surprised if SE did this positional thing though, sadly. I feel all the opinions against positionals come from a background of total ignorance by taking something like this for granted.

I'm just speaking for myself but I don't find positonals rewarding or challenging. SE could even throw more mechanics at you that make you move more while trying to keep your rotation going without positionals.

[Seddrinth]

I'm just speaking for myself but I don't find positonals rewarding or challenging. SE could even throw more mechanics at you that make you move more while trying to keep your rotation going without positionals.

Well if it is not challenging then why even think about removing it?

[Jopo-Gray]

I'm just speaking for myself but I don't find positonals rewarding or challenging. SE could even throw more mechanics at you that make you move more while trying to keep your rotation going without positionals.

Yes but then you need to make the fight harder for everyone to make up for the fact that melee dps no longer have positionals, right? and then as Sedd said why remove them if they are so easy then? They are the hardest thing about melee dps by far.

I don't understand how doing positionals on Monk during mechanics is not challenging. Maybe when the mechanics are easy to do/forsee but when you are doing skulls and towers in o8s it becomes clear that if positionals weren't in the game it would be a lot easier to play Monk completely optimally. Another example is o7s that was a decent challenge on melee because the boss was always turning and moving during mechanics, you had parts where you had to stand still meaning you had to think of what positional you needed the most depending on your rotation. Twintania in UCoB, ALLOT of turning and moving. A11s, you had to be prepared to move to the right positional if cruise chaser was going to cleave the side you were on while keeping your gcd rolling. Heck, even O1S had some challenge since the boss would jump to different parts of the arena facing certain directions, you also had to think ahead during ice on whether you were going to get a rear or flank positional before moving away from the boss, then slide back to the boss for the next positional. Getting as many positionals as you could during Ex-death dark orbs (whatever they are called) depending on what orb pattern you got.

I could go on and on with examples of how having positionals adds allot to the skill ceiling of these jobs and especially Monk. No positionals do have their place (Eureka being the best example), just not in raids and trials (with few exceptions).

I would rather have a more complex job than mechanics made exclusively for melee to make up for the fact that the class was made much easier. I would rather them think of creative mechanics to make it a challenge for me when striving for positionals. If there are some mechanics that don't allow me to hit positionals? I don't care because the overwhelming majority of the time you can hit them, it's just a question of fight knowledge and skill. Plus if every other melee misses those positionals, there's nothing to min-max (although there's true north usage), just miss some positionals like everyone else is the way I look at it.

[Arek]

I hope they don't get rid of positional entirely.

"Should they remove positionals at this point? "

No. I'm glad they did what they did in the patch 4.5 for MNK (and True North) because O9/10/11 and Seiryuu are changing direction pretty quickly but Positionals have been part of the signature of MNK (and other Melee DPS). And I want to keep that.

It's ok to have no positionnals for Massive multiplayer content like Eureka or Solo content like Deep Dungeon. But If you get rid of that entirely, It will be more boring as someone said previously that "Rythm" Fight of FF14 are too scripted rotation when you know them, so it will accentuate this state if you do not have to adapt your movement with the mechanics to get the extra DPS.

[Dzian]

To be honest I'd happily see them all scrapped. Its really not interesting. Especially when you can typically do them all with 1 step here and 1 step there..

If they scrapped them entirely I'd probably play and enjoy monk a hell of a lot more personally..

[Seddrinth]

To be honest I'd happily see them all scrapped. Its really not interesting. Especially when you can typically do them all with 1 step here and 1 step there..

If they scrapped them entirely I'd probably play and enjoy monk a hell of a lot more personally..

If you don't raid savage then you can just ignore positionals anyway. It's not a requirement to get through other content easily. Just play for fun and not worry about min/max. But those who enjoy the challenge shouldn't have it dumbed down to cater to the more casual players.

[Dzian]

If you don't raid savage then you can just ignore positionals anyway. It's not a requirement to get through other content easily. Just play for fun and not worry about min/max. But those who enjoy the challenge shouldn't have it dumbed down to cater to the more casual players.

i find this amusing because it generally is a requirement to get through everything easily. the just play for fun and dont worry about min max really doesnt fly.
i mean its like recent threads about running abania in i270 gear. and so many people flip out about it.. but hey don't worry about min/max just play for fun...
or again players who dont bother melding get grief because the game can throw so much materia at you for free why arent you melding it... hey don't worry about min/max yourgear just play for fun...

it's funny how the game has dumbed down simplified and scrapped so many battle elements that were actually fun and interesting but people said they were pointless and added an element of complexity. but then people say positionals which are dull and boring must stay because they add complexity or something. they really don't add anything to the battle system.

if you want to add some complexity bring back crowd control mechanics. or incapacitations or battle regimens or unscripted unpredictable encounters or any number of things infinitely more fun than positionals

I found it annoying on Ninja, but I'm quite happy with positionals on Sam.

You don't crash your dps by missing them. Infact, if you just stand in one spot, you'll generally hit half of them by default. But aiming to hit as many as you can rewards you with that little bit more damage and adds a skillcap.

You can just about beat SSS o12s ignoring positionals as Sam. It's just at the right point to look at as a bonus for hitting, rather than a loss for missing. Maybe other classes need to aim for this mark.

same can be said for ninja generally. i mean if you stayed in one spott he entire fight (rear) the only positional you would ever miss is armor crush for huton.

[Bigmoose85]

To be honest I'd happily see them all scrapped. Its really not interesting. Especially when you can typically do them all with 1 step here and 1 step there..

If they scrapped them entirely I'd probably play and enjoy monk a hell of a lot more personally..

I agree, been around since ARR and these days i barely care about hitting them.

[Liam_Harper]

I found it annoying on Ninja, but I'm quite happy with positionals on Sam.

You don't crash your dps by missing them. Infact, if you just stand in one spot, you'll generally hit half of them by default. But aiming to hit as many as you can rewards you with that little bit more damage and adds a skillcap.

You can just about beat SSS o12s ignoring positionals as Sam. It's just at the right point to look at as a bonus for hitting, rather than a loss for missing. Maybe other classes need to aim for this mark.

[Iromi]

In 1.x (1.23b specifically) I enjoyed positionals, they were fitting because the battle system had a good pace for me, now they just feel like a hindrance. I know some prefer them and that's just fine. As for me..I wouldn't miss them if they went.