How to give advice

[Jijifli]

Yes you need to know the bare basics when you play a class, yes you are suppose to read and learn your skills, yes if player at lvl 70 are clueless it’s unsettling.
Still there is no reason to pressure players in casual contents,you don’t know people you find in roulette or pugs, or their age ( they may be young teenager how do you know), their abilities to learn still they have right to play a game lol

Stop acting like I said X when I said Y. Did I say they don't have the right to play the game? No. And to be completely honest? If they aren't in my party I do not care at all how they are playing. It's when you get into my party, take up my time, that I'd hope you at least know how to press the keys on your keyboard at the most basic level. And you are right, I don't know who they are. So why not make a good first impression? And I hate the use of age for any reasoning to why something happens. I've had people who I've met in discord that are 13 or 14, who have outperformed me. It's about actually caring.

50+ doesn’t mean you are expert, some people do only potd till level 60 and they don’t learn anything’s sadly.
Most of gameplays totally evolve lvl by lvl and you can’t expect players to always keep up. Some skills are also difficult to apply and fit in a rotation without a lot of practice. But you need to give time then to learn at THEIR SPEED!

Jeez, caps on "their speed." Maybe you need to meditate. Palace isn't an excuse. In heavensward I got everything but Bard and Machinist to 60. Most of those were from palace. I still knew bare bone basics, because as I said in this post already, I cared enough to. Also, serious question, I do want this answered. What would you find difficult about pressing the 1 key, then the 2 key, then the 3 key? Remember how I like to say at least bare bones basics? Am I expecting perfect rotations? Nah, I still mess up sometimes on it. Am I expecting 1 2 3? Maybe.

Tanks also can’t find difficulties if DPS have much higher gear then them, as a BLM a combination of 3 flares + 1 foul it’s mind blowing and can give tanks trouble anyway.

My specific mention, since I didn't give context, was I had threat on the last boss in Compass. I had diversion up, and didn't even finish my blizzard setup at the start, and had threat and already ate a tank buster to get one shotted. You wanna tell me keeping threat off of the tank, with diversion still running from my opener, which didn't even technically get to fully start, could be because I had higher gear? XD Bonus note, he had full 360.

1 our of 100 is really low percentuale tho

And this is where I make an extra mention here. Start actually paying attention, because you'd be surprised just how insane some people are. I actually ended up taking a break back in 4.1 from the amount of people that couldn't do basics, the straw breaking the camels back was a level 54 warrior in Snowcloak who pressed only Butcher's block. No, not the combo, just the single ability. With a slow responding healer and BLM, I was almost soloing Fenrir as a monk. We had 3 wipes before I finally pushed it through, since I had my mentor crown on and the tank was a sprout. My advice? On deaf ears. Mechanics explained? Nobody did them. I think the forum post I made about it hit 50 pages? Here, I'm fetching a quote for you.

I have plenty of cases, from the starting land of Sastasha to the capped "pug" difficulty of Shinryu EX. The higher it goes, the more I am lost in how, but there's so many cases of people just doing things so unbearably wrong. Repeating, not talking about the guy that misses a few positionals. I'm talking about the BLM that spams Thunder. The WAR that presses only Butcher's Block (NOT the combo line, just the Butcher.) The WHM that only puts up Regen and then afk's for 30 seconds, regardless if their heals are needed or not.

These wouldn't be issues if advice is taken, but so often, I'm either outright ignored when I try to help, or backlashed back for daring to try. I just got through a Snowcloak that I joined in towards the end, with 45 minutes in. WAR never dodged anything and barely did combo's, making me obtain the enemy threat with Diversion running. BLM barely casted the correct things and stood in everything possible. WHM also stood in everything, never casting a Cure II and just randomly not doing anything. Despite my advice, nobody took it. I explained the fight in detail, every part they were messing up, even using specific sound effects to alert of which mechanics. Ignored. It always feel like it's on deaf ears. Then I realized something, how did they even make it TO THE LAST BOSS like that? How much did that DPS I replaced have to carry?

So let's go back to your earlier statement about 50+, and how it doesn't make you an expert. Would you say that the example I show here, is okay? This is why I took my crown off. This is why I stopped giving actual advice in parties, and would much rather either leave, or get myself kicked. Because it's a lot more than 1 in 100.

[SenorPatty]

@JohnSeal
Sorry but I have to ask here: where is this 1 out 100 statistic coming from that you keep repeating? At this point, one might almost think its fact.

I say this because once upon a time, I use to think exactly like that. Then stormblood happened and I spammed 61-69 dgns several times in a day for many weeks and suddenly, 1 out of 100 rate no longer held true. It's almost as if the rate of bad player encounters increases the more roulettes you do in a day...

[ShadowHunterrX]

And then they wonder why mentors stop caring.

Nice try. But most bad players I encounter are crown wearing ground kissing bodies. Nobody wants to listen to crown wearing dead bodies.

I always give a little spin when trying to explain things to get a chill mood. I did yesterday roulette leveling as tank ( I suck as tank btw ) and got Tam tam hard with 3 female characters. We wipe twice at the first boss and I explain the boss like this *This is the best moment for my fetish. Just stand on each other like hugging or some threesome and you will be fine* Got a chuckle and ice was broken. Second boss: Grab them some balls and Third boss: Don't let the adds grab her.

The only people I refuse to explain are people who come in after 15-25 min que and ask what is strat, plenty of time as DPS to google. People who are going in blind I am willing too.

[JohnSeal]

@JohnSeal
Sorry but I have to ask here: where is this 1 out 100 statistic coming from that you keep repeating? At this point, one might almost think its fact.

I say this because once upon a time, I use to think exactly like that. Then stormblood happened and I spammed 61-69 dgns several times in a day for many weeks and suddenly, 1 out of 100 rate no longer held true. It's almost as if the rate of bad player encounters increases the more roulettes you do in a day...

No that’s not a official stat, but personal experience. We are here, me and my BF, two mentors over 1200 dangeoun each and we don’t see horrendous players that often simple, I kicked not more that 3/4 player in the last year for being terrible but only tanks for sever lack of skills or healers for incompetence but never never never kicked a DPS for having orribile performances.

[RiyahArp]

I say this because once upon a time, I use to think exactly like that. Then stormblood happened and I spammed 61-69 dgns several times in a day for many weeks and suddenly, 1 out of 100 rate no longer held true. It's almost as if the rate of bad player encounters increases the more roulettes you do in a day...

well..those are leveling dungeons at a time where now people can literally start playing in a party due to jump potions. Keep in mind by the time you hit HW you've done at least what, 30 group dungeons one time? That's why the 61 dungeon is so easy, it may be a player's first taste of partying. Plus too there are a lot of newbies and returners this expansion, and with us vets, we could have been playing for years already.

I'm nothign special as a player, but just by playing since HW i learned a lot through sheer repetition. Others dont have that.

[JohnSeal]

Stop acting like I said X when I said Y. Did I say they don't have the right to play the game? No. And to be completely honest? If they aren't in my party I do not care at all how they are playing. It's when you get into my party, take up my time, that I'd hope you at least know how to press the keys on your keyboard at the most basic level. And you are right, I don't know who they are. So why not make a good first impression? And I hate the use of age for any reasoning to why something happens. I've had people who I've met in discord that are 13 or 14, who have outperformed me. It's about actually caring.



Jeez, caps on "their speed." Maybe you need to meditate. Palace isn't an excuse. In heavensward I got everything but Bard and Machinist to 60. Most of those were from palace. I still knew bare bone basics, because as I said in this post already, I cared enough to. Also, serious question, I do want this answered. What would you find difficult about pressing the 1 key, then the 2 key, then the 3 key? Remember how I like to say at least bare bones basics? Am I expecting perfect rotations? Nah, I still mess up sometimes on it. Am I expecting 1 2 3? Maybe.

I will answer: No there is not any difficulty in pressing 1,2,3 in a sequence. Still to know which button to press in which sequence you need to go and read a job guide.
Starting with saying an important thing; often guides you see online are not update, are incomplete or are just wrong! I see sometimes endgame guide with incorrect opener or missing essential information.
Anyway if player don’t have developed an interest in improving their rotation is totally on them,if you play on duty finder expect to find bad player sometimes or don’t even started. Ok you may be disappointed but you can’t enforce your law, you can’t pretend everybody to study guide before doing casual content. If you want give advice that’s great,I don’t because I DONT CARE lol
On the other hand, many player are self learner like me, I do practice and I spam dangeouns, if I get TIPS on how to optimise it’s just for endgame. At the begin I was a bad tank or I never use a fire ll as BLM till lvl 50+, but I learned and I am good with almost all classes now because I wanted to and I love this game (:

Honest opinion ( please please don’t burn me on a stick now).... guides are overrated and players like to be spoon fed with other people work lol they should banish guides so player can really have the challenge to optimise their rotation BY THEMSELVES! DPS with no guide= DPS with 2k dmg.
You will have less than 1% of ppl clearing savage contents lmao.

Anyway this sentence was out of topic just saying xD

[Ilan]

I will answer: No there is not any difficulty in pressing 1,2,3 in a sequence. Still to know which button to press in which sequence you need to go and read a job guide.
Starting with saying an important thing; often guides you see online are not update, are incomplete or are just wrong! I see sometimes endgame guide with incorrect opener or missing essential information.
Anyway if player don’t have developed an interest in improving their rotation is totally on them,if you play on duty finder expect to find bad player sometimes or don’t even started. Ok you may be disappointed but you can’t enforce your law, you can’t pretend everybody to study guide before doing casual content. If you want give advice that’s great,I don’t because I DONT CARE lol
On the other hand, many player are self learner like me, I do practice and I spam dangeouns, if I get TIPS on how to optimise it’s just for endgame. At the begin I was a bad tank or I never use a fire ll as BLM till lvl 50+, but I learned and I am good with almost all classes now because I wanted to and I love this game (:

Honest opinion ( please please don’t burn me on a stick now).... guides are overrated and players like to be spoon fed with other people work lol they should banish guides so player can really have the challenge to optimise their rotation BY THEMSELVES! DPS with no guide= DPS with 2k dmg.
You will have less than 1% of ppl clearing savage contents lmao.

Anyway this sentence was out of topic just saying xD

Guides are overrated? Guess then rotations are overrated too huh? Guides for savage raids and extreme primals are not overrated since they show you what you have to expect.

[Jijifli]

I will answer: No there is not any difficulty in pressing 1,2,3 in a sequence. Still to know which button to press in which sequence you need to go and read a job guide.
Starting with saying an important thing; often guides you see online are not update, are incomplete or are just wrong! I see sometimes endgame guide with incorrect opener or missing essential information.
Anyway if player don’t have developed an interest in improving their rotation is totally on them,if you play on duty finder expect to find bad player sometimes or don’t even started. Ok you may be disappointed but you can’t enforce your law, you can’t pretend everybody to study guide before doing casual content. If you want give advice that’s great,I don’t because I DONT CARE lol
On the other hand, many player are self learner like me, I do practice and I spam dangeouns, if I get TIPS on how to optimise it’s just for endgame. At the begin I was a bad tank or I never use a fire ll as BLM till lvl 50+, but I learned and I am good with almost all classes now because I wanted to and I love this game (:

Honest opinion ( please please don’t burn me on a stick now).... guides are overrated and players like to be spoon fed with other people work lol they should banish guides so player can really have the challenge to optimise their rotation BY THEMSELVES! DPS with no guide= DPS with 2k dmg.
You will have less than 1% of ppl clearing savage contents lmao.

Anyway this sentence was out of topic just saying xD

So since you keep bringing up guides, let me ask you something. Are you actually reading what I am saying, or are you doing it intentionally?

Nowhere did I mention a guide, because my expectation has no look for a guide. You even said there's no difficulty in 1 2 3, and that's my expectation. You know that your job has buttons and you'll press the buttons.

As for this "enforce the law" statement, you seem to be right. Because efforts to do such just get me harassed. Glad to have known my mentor status, which I actually was trying to care about, and was trying to help, was for nothing. I wanna make an extra mention, I'm sure I'm not the only mentor that stopped trying to be the good example. I'm sure there's plenty of the "bad mentors" that just can't take people's inability to process 3 numbers.

And yes, I have taken a break. My second break this expac. My sub only continues to run because I have a house, and because I do rp. So I'm not "started" with the dungeons.

But what do I know? I'm just a filthy ex-mentor who's pushing poor players to even be capable to do their one job.

[KaldeaSahaline]

Context is key tho. I know for a fact you wouldn't be too keen on some random coming to you in real life and flat out saying you are living your life wrong. I'm not saying advice giving is wrong but you cant come incorrect and expect them to correct themselves. Cause you're nothing but a stranger to them.

I tried to find an old post I made, but couldn't.

The premise is that I've had random people give advice to me. Like all advice/criticism you need to listen and evaluate regardless of context. Some of the most rewarding advice I've ever received professionally or in sports were from people that would make the average FF14 cry just by being in the same room as them.

I play USTA tennis at a decently high competitive level. I once played this scumlord who was CLEARLY sandbagging his rating. He wasn't rude during the match or before/after, but he wasn't as friendly and talkative as most tennis players are. After he completely bodied me 6-1, 6-1 in less than an hour, he said "Your running forehand was really weak and easy to attack, work on it".

I could have gotten upset or mad, etc, but instead I thought about what he said and he was right. I hadn't realized I lost nearly 14 points on a running forehand...

In my career, one of my managers was probably the least people friendly person I ever met, but he was a professional genius. The sheer amount of expertise I was able to acquire from simply being around him and in meetings with has served me incredibly well. Had I ignored all of that because he was a dick, it would have left me a much worse/ill equipped professional than I am today.

The point of this post is to say that ignored how feedback is given. Seriously who cares. Be an adult and evaluate it and if it makes sense, implement it.

That is the point dear... Advice is welcome, positive and encouraged.
Criticism is not! Just pointless and not appreciated by most of people.
Like imagine in a working environment:
Are you ok if colleague criticise you ? I doubt, probably an healthy advice to improve may be better . You can find people ( or colleagues) the criticise just to diminish you and others that give you advice to improve your OTE, l think we all prefer second kind of people to work with.
Same concept applies in ffxiv

Not sure how old you are or where you live, but in the real world of adults, criticism is one of the most important things in the world, and I ALWAYS accept it from anyone and everyone willing to give it. It makes me stronger.

[Ilan]

I tried to find an old post I made, but couldn't.

The premise is that I've had random people give advice to me. Like all advice/criticism you need to listen and evaluate regardless of context. Some of the most rewarding advice I've ever received professionally or in sports were from people that would make the average FF14 cry just by being in the same room as them.

I play USTA tennis at a decently high competitive level. I once played this scumlord who was CLEARLY sandbagging his rating. He wasn't rude during the match or before/after, but he wasn't as friendly and talkative as most tennis players are. After he completely bodied me 6-1, 6-1 in less than an hour, he said "Your running forehand was really weak and easy to attack, work on it".

I could have gotten upset or mad, etc, but instead I thought about what he said and he was right. I hadn't realized I lost nearly 14 points on a running forehand...

In my career, one of my managers was probably the least people friendly person I ever met, but he was a professional genius. The sheer amount of expertise I was able to acquire from simply being around him and in meetings with has served me incredibly well. Had I ignored all of that because he was a dick, it would have left me a much worse/ill equipped professional than I am today.

The point of this post is to say that ignored how feedback is given. Seriously who cares. Be an adult and evaluate it and if it makes sense, implement it.



Not sure how old you are or where you live, but in the real world of adults, criticism is one of the most important things in the world, and I ALWAYS accept it from anyone and everyone willing to give it. It makes me stronger.

But you should've ignored all the advice and tips if you didn't asked for it. Did you learn nothing from this thread?