How to give advice

[alimdia]

I do agree that advice should be given respectfully, the sugarcoating part of my post referred more to asking before giving a tip, which IMO should not be necessary.

[Melichoir]

How often, in reality, are there fights that require throwing out mid combat "Hey, do 'X'." Very few. The way the game is set up, it takes some next level inexperience where this would be a necessity in normal content. Not that it doesnt happen, but rather Id hazard 90% of the time you can wait till the pull is over to say something. And since boss monsters arent the first thing you run into, if people are as skilled as they claim, theyll notice it well before then.

[ko_]

I do agree that advice should be given respectfully, the sugarcoating part of my post referred more to asking before giving a tip, which IMO should not be necessary.

Context is key tho. I know for a fact you wouldn't be too keen on some random coming to you in real life and flat out saying you are living your life wrong. I'm not saying advice giving is wrong but you cant come incorrect and expect them to correct themselves. Cause you're nothing but a stranger to them.

[alimdia]

Context is key tho. I know for a fact you wouldn't be too keen on some random coming to you in real life and flat out saying you are living your life wrong. I'm not saying advice giving is wrong but you cant come incorrect and expect them to correct themselves. Cause you're nothing but a stranger to them.

The context in this case is a team based MMO and doing group content, I'd say that warrants overriding asking for permission before giving tips.

[Melichoir]

If its savage, EX, ultimate or other content where a player can mess up real hard for everyone involved (causing wipes due to things like DPS checks, or failing mechanics, etc). Yeah, maknig a call out then mid fight isnt inherently unwarranted.

But if were talking about Dungeons, 24 mans on farm, basic and hard modes, etc. Things where a person could quite literally spam one DPS skill and probably still make the dps check, yeah, there is no reason why you shouldnt ask. Cause the general truth is simple: If youre doing Savage/EX/etc, thats high end content (more or less. People can debate that), and those involved should be aware of not only how to play their class but also fight mechanics. If they choose not to learn their class, thats on them. It matters then.

But in lower level stuff, no, being rude and shoving 'tips' into peoples face isnt warranted. It doesnt take you much effort to be like "Hey, would like some tips on how to play 'x'. I main that" or something. They can say no, and it sucks for you, cause MAYBE the run will go a touch slower, but its not hte end of hte world. Its a bit of push and pull. Standard content everyone goes through, youre going to have to put up with lower skilled people who may not want to get better. Save your advise for people who want it, or for content where it matters.

[Tizzy_Tormentor]

Back in ARR, I struggled a bit with how to play SMN, I just kind of wasn't doing too well, in an Expert roulette, guy basically said I wasn't playing it as good as I could be and told me how to do better. Knowing I could stand to get some pointers, I just read what he wrote and honestly I felt like I was doing much better after, at the end he told me to keep up the practice. He wasn't exactly polite about it but I thought if he had something to say, might as well listen and honestly, it helped.

Not everyone is out to get you, in my experience, if they care enough to point it out and offer to help, they are trying to be helpful, even if it doesn't seem that way, but giving advice to players is absolutely not allowed. If they say "you suck" with no advice on how to improve, yeah, dick move, but I have seen some players struggle to play and always stop myself from trying to help because doing so is frowned upon.

[alimdia]

If its savage, EX, ultimate or other content where a player can mess up real hard for everyone involved (causing wipes due to things like DPS checks, or failing mechanics, etc). Yeah, maknig a call out then mid fight isnt inherently unwarranted.

But if were talking about Dungeons, 24 mans on farm, basic and hard modes, etc. Things where a person could quite literally spam one DPS skill and probably still make the dps check, yeah, there is no reason why you shouldnt ask. Cause the general truth is simple: If youre doing Savage/EX/etc, thats high end content (more or less. People can debate that), and those involved should be aware of not only how to play their class but also fight mechanics. If they choose not to learn their class, thats on them. It matters then.

But in lower level stuff, no, being rude and shoving 'tips' into peoples face isnt warranted. It doesnt take you much effort to be like "Hey, would like some tips on how to play 'x'. I main that" or something. They can say no, and it sucks for you, cause MAYBE the run will go a touch slower, but its not hte end of hte world. Its a bit of push and pull. Standard content everyone goes through, youre going to have to put up with lower skilled people who may not want to get better. Save your advise for people who want it, or for content where it matters.

Giving tips isn't rude, and easy content is the most appropriate scenario for tips because that's where you practice and learn for the harder stuff, by the time you reach savage you're already supposed to know not to use an aoe rotation for single target.

Be more positive, if you're taking the goodwill of other people as a personal attack then the problem isn't them.

[Pyroxene]

Warning: I'm venting and this has been said before, but it bares repeating.

So on Friday I'm doing a simple Duty Finder dungeon run. I'm blm, not the best, but I'm learning my rotation. I can get Flare up pretty fast. I tend to use the same basic rotation on both single and group targets. Yes, I should work on that.

Anyways, things are going well and we're all running through it pretty quickly, when someone has a fit that I'm using Thunder 4 on a single target. They then proceed to say "let me school you on blm". This ticked me off beyond compare. A few runs down the line and they post the basic blm rotation.

I get it, I need to work on things, but I am getting better. If this this person had been watching, they'd have seen I was doing most of the rotation. Also, stuff happens, sometimes I lose my place in the rotation due to fight dynamics.

The point? If you want to give advice, ask the other play if they want it. This person's attitude threw my whole game off the rest of the run. I've been in parties where players asked others if they'd like a few tips. Those parties were some of the best I've been in. People start talking and sharing and we have great times. This is why I haven't left Final Fantasy.

Thanks for listening, hope some of you understand.

Hmm... I disagree, HOW you relay it is key here, if you are noticing a player not performing well, you should be doing your bit to assist in building a better community by offering your assistance and tips etc. "Let me school you on BLM" is just needless arrogance and bound to get someones back up over it, thus making them less receptive to advice to improve.

A simple "Hey <playername> I noticed your rotation/damage/healing/aggroholding is quite off, have you tried doing <insert advice here>, might make things easier for you."

Imo, if you can't stand up and offer your help and advice where you can, you have no right to complain when others don't perform to your expectation. Even people who know they need help will often turn it down out of fear of looking stupid. Give them the advice you see they need, it's up to them if they decide to use it, but for the love of god, do it politely, being a jerk or an arrogant know all isn't gonna get you anywhere. In this, I agree with you

[Hamada]

I don't understand people who think that they need to be the one to educate everyone else on everything. Just do your thing. Run with friends if you don't like joining a dungeon where there might be newer players that will annoy you if they hit a wrong button or don't use the exact proc you think they should. And above all, if you HAVE to give your opinion on something (like anyone even asked to hear your mouth), at least have the grace to not be a complete tool about it. Save it for Savage, if your raid leader will even put up with it.

So sick of the entitlement these days.

Lol, you post with an entitlement attitude, while accusing others of entitlement ? irony.
Some people like to talk and help people improve. For the TC's situation , ya saying something like "let me school you on blm" is rude, but that is usually a response when a person is being resistant to taking any kind of criticism in the first place. A good example of something that happened to someone I know the other day (shown me the chat log on discord) Someone told the tank to tank better since a RDM DPS kept taking hate on multiple things from scatter spam. This person end up dying once, oneshoted on a boss from a badly timed displacement + direction disoriented. So someone felt the need to be passive/aggressive to the RDM, even though the tank was admitting being new to tanking in expert.

With that said, I do not understand people that want to play solo in an online game and not talk to others.

[Souljacker]

Lol, you post with an entitlement attitude, while accusing others of entitlement ? irony.
Some people like to talk and help people improve. For the TC's situation , ya saying something like "let me school you on blm" is rude, but that is usually a response when a person is being resistant to taking any kind of criticism in the first place. A good example of something that happened to someone I know the other day (shown me the chat log on discord) Someone told the tank to tank better since a RDM DPS kept taking hate on multiple things from scatter spam. This person end up dying once, oneshoted on a boss from a badly timed displacement + direction disoriented. So someone felt the need to be passive/aggressive to the RDM, even though the tank was admitting being new to tanking in expert.

With that said, I do not understand people that want to play solo in an online game and not talk to others.

Entitlement attitude? The folks picking apart my posts are thin skinned. It doesn't feel great when someone challenges them and they are making sure to let me know it.

It doesn't feel great when someone talks to you the way you talk to others - but if this is the only way to communicate that to people then so be it.

That's my whole point here - there's a right way and a wrong way to communicate with people and most of the posters in here get that, the other x% have their hackles up because they viewed my tone as mean while posting mean things themselves and swearing that everyone should just have a thicker skin. You can't have it both ways. Folks don't get to be condescending and mean to others and then turn around and get their panties in a bunch when someone does it back. When that happens, that tells me they really *do* agree that the person described in the OP was being a tool and they *know* how to properly behave toward other people to get good results, but they want to feel superior and shred the OP anyway because it's the internet and we all want to have a big epeen and anonymity makes it easy to do that.

It's freaking ridiculous.