How to give advice

[JohnSeal]

If I see that someone is trying their best, maybe takes advice and improving or even goes so far to outright ask for it, I will never even consider kicking them. In a case like that, I\\\\'lAs soon as someone pulls the "I play only for (my own) fun"-card to excuse their slacky behaviour, how ever minor it might be, and shows that they dont care for the team and other peoples time that way, they\\\\'re out.

Personally I dont expect to see perfection, I expect to see effort and a sense of awarness of the fact that you\\\\'re not playing this game alone but with 3/7/23 other people. If you dont want to give them the courtesy of your best effort, why should they (want to) play with you? Why should they care for someone who made it clear that they dont care for them?

Its not about the dungeon taking 5, 10 or 30 minutes longer, its the attitude behind whats leading to this how people are gonna take it - is it someone struggeling, trying their best, listening to advice?I\\\\'ll

I understand and I think it’s a fair point.
I totally agree with the “ putting 100% of you effort is a matter of respect to everyone”
Yes when I play at all level I am expecting people to be serious,not wasting people time and not nervous attitude at any time. Personally I never meet someone telling stuff like “you don’t pay my sub” or other unsettlingly responses lol
I think if you are a DPS you want see mobs burning so even if you play for fun, suggestion on “How to kill better “ are appreciate by most of ppl.
As I say many time PRACTICE is essential to improve yourself and motivate player can achieve good results.
Please you all Elitist player with short tempers remember the time you were just “Noobs” few year back. Not you Vidu xD

Anyway I would like to say that really often you can see people mistakes are obvious and can be easily fixed but in many other cases the mistake are on fundamental, the conception iteself of the class gameplay may be wrong.
If a tank can’t tank in a dangeoun because is not experienced enough yet, you can’t stop everything and spend ten minutes lecturing him/her on “How to tank” from cds rotation,positioning, aggro management. I mean I don’t because will take long and I am never seeing this person again.
You can’t spend long time sitting and typing to an healer stuff like mp management, when to life regen, how to use shield,how do not get enmity pre pull or how reduce it.
To DPS may be even more complex,you can help fix little basic things but not teach a gameplay especially if when you hit 70( more or less) totally evolve.
In general most of player that really love ffxiv will give their best because they WANT TO. I am a self learner, it took a while for some roles and even if I am a raider, a mentor I still want to learn more. Other people don’t want and can’t do anything about it, so don’t bother yourself to much finish the instance and that’s it (:

[JohnSeal]

I'd give you a list of slanders I've gotten for daring to give advice, but I'd be banned from the forums for horrific toxicity. In comparison, blind monkey is a compliment.



Yes, I know you said Rhetorical, but here's a question. Did you read what I said, or did you miss the "bare basics" in my statement? Here, I'll break it down, nice and simple.

1 2 3

^ That is barebones basics. Can you count to 3? You're probably better than my average pug member.

Actually, I'ma edit this little note in. You also missed how I said 50+ content, not fresh level 1 players. Maybe we do have a blind monkey.



Is it pressuring too much to ask a tank to keep threat when I'm using diversion and lucid? Or asking a healer to not spam heals on people at full health? Am I too pushy by asking the BLM to actually cast a fire spell? Or asking a NIN to use combo's? Or a RDM to not hardcast verthunder constantly?

I'm not asking for savage level stuff in my expert. Nobody with any common sense is. But every time I see someone in 70 content who has completely no idea what they're doing, it only tells me Square's not pushing anyone to try at all. And given how with an alt I'm actively trying to do the minimum while still doing something and still getting by, even in the Stormblood solo instances people proclaimed were difficult?

Let’s take a deep deep breath xD please do some yoga or meditation you really sound too nervous lol

Yes you need to know the bare basics when you play a class, yes you are suppose to read and learn your skills, yes if player at lvl 70 are clueless it’s unsettling.
Still there is no reason to pressure players in casual contents,you don’t know people you find in roulette or pugs, or their age ( they may be young teenager how do you know), their abilities to learn still they have right to play a game lol

50+ doesn’t mean you are expert, some people do only potd till level 60 and they don’t learn anything’s sadly.
Most of gameplays totally evolve lvl by lvl and you can’t expect players to always keep up. Some skills are also difficult to apply and fit in a rotation without a lot of practice. But you need to give time then to learn at THEIR SPEED!
Tanks also can’t find difficulties if DPS have much higher gear then them, as a BLM a combination of 3 flares + 1 foul it’s mind blowing and can give tanks trouble anyway.

About saying SE should give more instruments to improve yourself and your skills I agree.
But please no drama, pugs and duty roulettes are not full of horrible players as you may say. 1 our of 100 is really low percentuale tho

[Jijifli]

Yes you need to know the bare basics when you play a class, yes you are suppose to read and learn your skills, yes if player at lvl 70 are clueless it’s unsettling.
Still there is no reason to pressure players in casual contents,you don’t know people you find in roulette or pugs, or their age ( they may be young teenager how do you know), their abilities to learn still they have right to play a game lol

Stop acting like I said X when I said Y. Did I say they don't have the right to play the game? No. And to be completely honest? If they aren't in my party I do not care at all how they are playing. It's when you get into my party, take up my time, that I'd hope you at least know how to press the keys on your keyboard at the most basic level. And you are right, I don't know who they are. So why not make a good first impression? And I hate the use of age for any reasoning to why something happens. I've had people who I've met in discord that are 13 or 14, who have outperformed me. It's about actually caring.

50+ doesn’t mean you are expert, some people do only potd till level 60 and they don’t learn anything’s sadly.
Most of gameplays totally evolve lvl by lvl and you can’t expect players to always keep up. Some skills are also difficult to apply and fit in a rotation without a lot of practice. But you need to give time then to learn at THEIR SPEED!

Jeez, caps on "their speed." Maybe you need to meditate. Palace isn't an excuse. In heavensward I got everything but Bard and Machinist to 60. Most of those were from palace. I still knew bare bone basics, because as I said in this post already, I cared enough to. Also, serious question, I do want this answered. What would you find difficult about pressing the 1 key, then the 2 key, then the 3 key? Remember how I like to say at least bare bones basics? Am I expecting perfect rotations? Nah, I still mess up sometimes on it. Am I expecting 1 2 3? Maybe.

Tanks also can’t find difficulties if DPS have much higher gear then them, as a BLM a combination of 3 flares + 1 foul it’s mind blowing and can give tanks trouble anyway.

My specific mention, since I didn't give context, was I had threat on the last boss in Compass. I had diversion up, and didn't even finish my blizzard setup at the start, and had threat and already ate a tank buster to get one shotted. You wanna tell me keeping threat off of the tank, with diversion still running from my opener, which didn't even technically get to fully start, could be because I had higher gear? XD Bonus note, he had full 360.

1 our of 100 is really low percentuale tho

And this is where I make an extra mention here. Start actually paying attention, because you'd be surprised just how insane some people are. I actually ended up taking a break back in 4.1 from the amount of people that couldn't do basics, the straw breaking the camels back was a level 54 warrior in Snowcloak who pressed only Butcher's block. No, not the combo, just the single ability. With a slow responding healer and BLM, I was almost soloing Fenrir as a monk. We had 3 wipes before I finally pushed it through, since I had my mentor crown on and the tank was a sprout. My advice? On deaf ears. Mechanics explained? Nobody did them. I think the forum post I made about it hit 50 pages? Here, I'm fetching a quote for you.

I have plenty of cases, from the starting land of Sastasha to the capped "pug" difficulty of Shinryu EX. The higher it goes, the more I am lost in how, but there's so many cases of people just doing things so unbearably wrong. Repeating, not talking about the guy that misses a few positionals. I'm talking about the BLM that spams Thunder. The WAR that presses only Butcher's Block (NOT the combo line, just the Butcher.) The WHM that only puts up Regen and then afk's for 30 seconds, regardless if their heals are needed or not.

These wouldn't be issues if advice is taken, but so often, I'm either outright ignored when I try to help, or backlashed back for daring to try. I just got through a Snowcloak that I joined in towards the end, with 45 minutes in. WAR never dodged anything and barely did combo's, making me obtain the enemy threat with Diversion running. BLM barely casted the correct things and stood in everything possible. WHM also stood in everything, never casting a Cure II and just randomly not doing anything. Despite my advice, nobody took it. I explained the fight in detail, every part they were messing up, even using specific sound effects to alert of which mechanics. Ignored. It always feel like it's on deaf ears. Then I realized something, how did they even make it TO THE LAST BOSS like that? How much did that DPS I replaced have to carry?

So let's go back to your earlier statement about 50+, and how it doesn't make you an expert. Would you say that the example I show here, is okay? This is why I took my crown off. This is why I stopped giving actual advice in parties, and would much rather either leave, or get myself kicked. Because it's a lot more than 1 in 100.

[SenorPatty]

@JohnSeal
Sorry but I have to ask here: where is this 1 out 100 statistic coming from that you keep repeating? At this point, one might almost think its fact.

I say this because once upon a time, I use to think exactly like that. Then stormblood happened and I spammed 61-69 dgns several times in a day for many weeks and suddenly, 1 out of 100 rate no longer held true. It's almost as if the rate of bad player encounters increases the more roulettes you do in a day...

[RiyahArp]

I say this because once upon a time, I use to think exactly like that. Then stormblood happened and I spammed 61-69 dgns several times in a day for many weeks and suddenly, 1 out of 100 rate no longer held true. It's almost as if the rate of bad player encounters increases the more roulettes you do in a day...

well..those are leveling dungeons at a time where now people can literally start playing in a party due to jump potions. Keep in mind by the time you hit HW you've done at least what, 30 group dungeons one time? That's why the 61 dungeon is so easy, it may be a player's first taste of partying. Plus too there are a lot of newbies and returners this expansion, and with us vets, we could have been playing for years already.

I'm nothign special as a player, but just by playing since HW i learned a lot through sheer repetition. Others dont have that.

[ShadowHunterrX]

And then they wonder why mentors stop caring.

Nice try. But most bad players I encounter are crown wearing ground kissing bodies. Nobody wants to listen to crown wearing dead bodies.

I always give a little spin when trying to explain things to get a chill mood. I did yesterday roulette leveling as tank ( I suck as tank btw ) and got Tam tam hard with 3 female characters. We wipe twice at the first boss and I explain the boss like this *This is the best moment for my fetish. Just stand on each other like hugging or some threesome and you will be fine* Got a chuckle and ice was broken. Second boss: Grab them some balls and Third boss: Don't let the adds grab her.

The only people I refuse to explain are people who come in after 15-25 min que and ask what is strat, plenty of time as DPS to google. People who are going in blind I am willing too.

[JohnSeal]

@JohnSeal
Sorry but I have to ask here: where is this 1 out 100 statistic coming from that you keep repeating? At this point, one might almost think its fact.

I say this because once upon a time, I use to think exactly like that. Then stormblood happened and I spammed 61-69 dgns several times in a day for many weeks and suddenly, 1 out of 100 rate no longer held true. It's almost as if the rate of bad player encounters increases the more roulettes you do in a day...

No that’s not a official stat, but personal experience. We are here, me and my BF, two mentors over 1200 dangeoun each and we don’t see horrendous players that often simple, I kicked not more that 3/4 player in the last year for being terrible but only tanks for sever lack of skills or healers for incompetence but never never never kicked a DPS for having orribile performances.

[JohnSeal]

Stop acting like I said X when I said Y. Did I say they don't have the right to play the game? No. And to be completely honest? If they aren't in my party I do not care at all how they are playing. It's when you get into my party, take up my time, that I'd hope you at least know how to press the keys on your keyboard at the most basic level. And you are right, I don't know who they are. So why not make a good first impression? And I hate the use of age for any reasoning to why something happens. I've had people who I've met in discord that are 13 or 14, who have outperformed me. It's about actually caring.



Jeez, caps on "their speed." Maybe you need to meditate. Palace isn't an excuse. In heavensward I got everything but Bard and Machinist to 60. Most of those were from palace. I still knew bare bone basics, because as I said in this post already, I cared enough to. Also, serious question, I do want this answered. What would you find difficult about pressing the 1 key, then the 2 key, then the 3 key? Remember how I like to say at least bare bones basics? Am I expecting perfect rotations? Nah, I still mess up sometimes on it. Am I expecting 1 2 3? Maybe.

I will answer: No there is not any difficulty in pressing 1,2,3 in a sequence. Still to know which button to press in which sequence you need to go and read a job guide.
Starting with saying an important thing; often guides you see online are not update, are incomplete or are just wrong! I see sometimes endgame guide with incorrect opener or missing essential information.
Anyway if player don’t have developed an interest in improving their rotation is totally on them,if you play on duty finder expect to find bad player sometimes or don’t even started. Ok you may be disappointed but you can’t enforce your law, you can’t pretend everybody to study guide before doing casual content. If you want give advice that’s great,I don’t because I DONT CARE lol
On the other hand, many player are self learner like me, I do practice and I spam dangeouns, if I get TIPS on how to optimise it’s just for endgame. At the begin I was a bad tank or I never use a fire ll as BLM till lvl 50+, but I learned and I am good with almost all classes now because I wanted to and I love this game (:

Honest opinion ( please please don’t burn me on a stick now).... guides are overrated and players like to be spoon fed with other people work lol they should banish guides so player can really have the challenge to optimise their rotation BY THEMSELVES! DPS with no guide= DPS with 2k dmg.
You will have less than 1% of ppl clearing savage contents lmao.

Anyway this sentence was out of topic just saying xD

[Ilan]

I will answer: No there is not any difficulty in pressing 1,2,3 in a sequence. Still to know which button to press in which sequence you need to go and read a job guide.
Starting with saying an important thing; often guides you see online are not update, are incomplete or are just wrong! I see sometimes endgame guide with incorrect opener or missing essential information.
Anyway if player don’t have developed an interest in improving their rotation is totally on them,if you play on duty finder expect to find bad player sometimes or don’t even started. Ok you may be disappointed but you can’t enforce your law, you can’t pretend everybody to study guide before doing casual content. If you want give advice that’s great,I don’t because I DONT CARE lol
On the other hand, many player are self learner like me, I do practice and I spam dangeouns, if I get TIPS on how to optimise it’s just for endgame. At the begin I was a bad tank or I never use a fire ll as BLM till lvl 50+, but I learned and I am good with almost all classes now because I wanted to and I love this game (:

Honest opinion ( please please don’t burn me on a stick now).... guides are overrated and players like to be spoon fed with other people work lol they should banish guides so player can really have the challenge to optimise their rotation BY THEMSELVES! DPS with no guide= DPS with 2k dmg.
You will have less than 1% of ppl clearing savage contents lmao.

Anyway this sentence was out of topic just saying xD

Guides are overrated? Guess then rotations are overrated too huh? Guides for savage raids and extreme primals are not overrated since they show you what you have to expect.

[Jijifli]

I will answer: No there is not any difficulty in pressing 1,2,3 in a sequence. Still to know which button to press in which sequence you need to go and read a job guide.
Starting with saying an important thing; often guides you see online are not update, are incomplete or are just wrong! I see sometimes endgame guide with incorrect opener or missing essential information.
Anyway if player don’t have developed an interest in improving their rotation is totally on them,if you play on duty finder expect to find bad player sometimes or don’t even started. Ok you may be disappointed but you can’t enforce your law, you can’t pretend everybody to study guide before doing casual content. If you want give advice that’s great,I don’t because I DONT CARE lol
On the other hand, many player are self learner like me, I do practice and I spam dangeouns, if I get TIPS on how to optimise it’s just for endgame. At the begin I was a bad tank or I never use a fire ll as BLM till lvl 50+, but I learned and I am good with almost all classes now because I wanted to and I love this game (:

Honest opinion ( please please don’t burn me on a stick now).... guides are overrated and players like to be spoon fed with other people work lol they should banish guides so player can really have the challenge to optimise their rotation BY THEMSELVES! DPS with no guide= DPS with 2k dmg.
You will have less than 1% of ppl clearing savage contents lmao.

Anyway this sentence was out of topic just saying xD

So since you keep bringing up guides, let me ask you something. Are you actually reading what I am saying, or are you doing it intentionally?

Nowhere did I mention a guide, because my expectation has no look for a guide. You even said there's no difficulty in 1 2 3, and that's my expectation. You know that your job has buttons and you'll press the buttons.

As for this "enforce the law" statement, you seem to be right. Because efforts to do such just get me harassed. Glad to have known my mentor status, which I actually was trying to care about, and was trying to help, was for nothing. I wanna make an extra mention, I'm sure I'm not the only mentor that stopped trying to be the good example. I'm sure there's plenty of the "bad mentors" that just can't take people's inability to process 3 numbers.

And yes, I have taken a break. My second break this expac. My sub only continues to run because I have a house, and because I do rp. So I'm not "started" with the dungeons.

But what do I know? I'm just a filthy ex-mentor who's pushing poor players to even be capable to do their one job.