So, how is Pagos?

[Vnolan]

Pagos is fine as is if you're going for one relic weapon. It remains to be seen how it'll look if you want more than one.

Players reached lvl 35 around two days after the content was released and I saw a few relics over the weekend, and this was done when more than 95% of the players were at a low level, meaning fewer NMs would be spawned, and when spawn conditions were not known (spawn conditions are still being worked out).

Mobs that mutate or adapt give a x2.5 bonus. The 30th kill in a chain gives a x5 bonus. The entirety of a 30 chain is equal to killing 55 mobs. In the 30's, you get around 3.5k per mob, which translates to 200k exp with no mutations, no exp potion and no fairy exp bonus taken into account. If you get a mutation on chain 30, that kill alone would give 40k. Mutations/adaptations don't revert if aggro is reset, allowing you to save one for a chain 30 kill if you get it early in the chain.

A chain of 30 in a party of eight at five levels below the mob takes 15-20 minutes and you only need decent dps for the last part of the chain. If that's too long, you can always do +4 mobs or lower. Don't want to chain mobs? You don't have to. You can afk and wait for NMs, though you won't progress anywhere near as fast as those that grind, which is how it should have been in Anemos.

Because chaining mobs is a thing again, the fairy has use, since it gives a 10% exp buff (doesn't apply to NMs) and an increase in damage dealt.

In Anemos, there was no reason to kill any mobs but those that spawned the NMs. Mutations and adaptations change that. In Anemos after the first few days, dying meant sitting there and waiting for a res. Sleeping dragons, the map layout and chaining means getting a res isn't as sure a thing.

There are complaints about it being boring, but what are the suggestions? "Buff this, nerf that"

There are complaints about the exp grind, but it's the light portion that's the real grind.

Issues with Pagos at the moment are the lack of a sync function, kills having a small chance of not registering and to a lesser extent, AoEs on snow during heatwaves being a little difficult to see.

Buffs and nerfs aren't so simple. If they implement them, it would be an insult to the players that did the content early. The content will be nerfed in the future, for sure, but in a few months, not when the content is a week old. It would set a bad precedent: Don't like the grind? Go to the forums and complain until it gets reduced.

[Deceptus]

The entirety of a 30 chain is equal to killing 55 mobs. In the 30's, you get around 3.5k per mob, which translates to 200k exp with no mutations,

And in your 30's you need millions of exp to level so you're doing that chain at least 10 times. That's 300 mobs for a level. Not exactly great gameplay.

A chain of 30 in a party of eight at five levels below the mob takes 15-20 minutes

So between 2 and 3 hours of constant, mind numbing fighting for a level. Non.Stop.Fighting.

You can hear the bones and tendons in your hands and your migraine begging you for a break.

[Vnolan]

constant

I don't think that word means what you think it means. 10 chains would be with zero NMs. Contrary to what the forums have been saying, they aren't that rare. It's more likely several of those chains will be interrupted by a NM, and it's still the early days. And that's only if you wanted a more efficient method. You're free to do nothing if you want.

[Lumis_Arvalo]

Contrary to what the forums have been saying, they aren't that rare.

As someone who has been in numerous Pagos instances every day since it's release and having experienced 80-90 minute gaps between NM spawns in nearly all of them...

...yes, they are.

[Souljacker]

And in your 30's you need millions of exp to level so you're doing that chain at least 10 times. That's 300 mobs for a level. Not exactly great gameplay.

So between 2 and 3 hours of constant, mind numbing fighting for a level. Non-Stop Fighting.

You can hear the bones and tendons in your hands and your migraine begging you for a break.

And that's only providing you even get into a party of people all with ideal level ranges, get to camp alive, and everyone stays to play for that entire time. This game isn't designed for that kind of leveling and the playerbase isn't used to it. In XI we would actually plan to be in a party for a minimum of an hour after getting to camp and would actually look for our own replacement if we had to go and the party was going to continue. It's really crazy how SE has completely forgotten how it even worked.

Or *why* it worked, for that matter. It worked in XI because the process was a lot slower and more forgiving, and camps weren't nearly as crazy dangerous to get to as they are here. No seriously, they weren't. About the hardest camp to get to was probably the camps where you went through true sight Imps, but even then they were placed carefully and with forethought so a little patience got you to your party.

NONE of that is present here. Every single mob is true sight\sound because there's no stealth spells or meds, and the pathing is so random there is absolutely no way they didn't purposely program it to hurt the exploration experience. That's not what we remember from XI. At least, it's not what *I* remember.

I remember making my way through Konschadt Highlands carefully through the goblin patrols and the occasional ram pop. I remember the bats in the tunnel in the dunes that aggroed to sound, and normally some high level was wandering around and would kill them. Or with some careful planning I could kill them myself at around 16-17 depending on job. Same thing over in Qufim Island - The Dancing Weapon was about the most dangerous thing there on your way through and it could be stealthed through but usually someone was there to help kill it. And it stayed dead for a really long stretch. There wasn't much at all dangerous in the jungles because we could hop on the chocobo there at Kazham. The camps in Garliage were all easily accessible and didn't need any stealthing - not even the bottom floor camps that were alternative to the Nest (and that was super easy to get through too). The camps in Aht Urgan were all easy to access, especially once you got all the runic portals. I think that Mt. Zhayolm was my fav place to go - I liked the crawlers up there.

I'm really stretching my memory here but I can't think of a single camp that is anywhere near the level of unforgiving with mob placement, spawns, or terrain as this new map. So like, this idea that it's some throwback to an earlier time just isn't accurate, or other people have a very different memory of how leveling and getting to camps actually was in XI.

It was a relaxing experience. It wasn't a freak out stress getting to the camp every time (first time is always exciting, but here in Pagos it's just stress EVERY time), it wasn't a freak out because other parties would try to mpk you because 6+ groups are all camped on top of each other and competing (at most we'd have 2-3 parties at a camp and very rarely did we go out of our way to hurt one another's xp), and there wasn't this expectation that you never. stop. moving. for. a. single. moment. because of a GCD. Most of all, people *stayed*. They *stayed* in the party. And if they had to go, they generally gave notice. Here? Folks just drop and you're lucky to even get a courtesy "thanks for pt".

This game wasn't designed to handle this kind of play. It's why we didn't do it in Anemos. It's why rather than even play Pagos, I logged out for the last three days and cancelled my sub. It's why this particular iteration of the content is doomed to fail.

XI was a great game. I wish we could see more of what made it great come over here. I do NOT want this dev team's interpretation of it. They don't have a clue about their own game.

[RiyahArp]

I'm really stretching my memory here but I can't think of a single camp that is anywhere near the level of unforgiving with mob placement, spawns, or terrain as this new map.

Garlaige Citadel.

The RMT used to MPK you with Serket if you exp'ed there. Players often mpked by accident the camp at the zone if they had to flee the lower camp. It was a multilevel map with undead that would blood aggro, and you had to drop down often. FFXI wasn't all relaxing either; just trying to navigate to any camps in yuhtunga except the zone ones was a hassle, because the jungle was maze like and the maps didnt show connections.

FFXI was pretty stressful too, just saying.

[Souljacker]

Garlaige Citadel.

The RMT used to MPK you with Serket if you exp'ed there. Players often mpked by accident the camp at the zone if they had to flee the lower camp. It was a multilevel map with undead that would blood aggro, and you had to drop down often. FFXI wasn't all relaxing either; just trying to navigate to any camps in yuhtunga except the zone ones was a hassle, because the jungle was maze like and the maps didnt show connections.

FFXI was pretty stressful too, just saying.

There were only a handful of places to camp - either upstairs on bats\beetles in the two safe spots (Entrance and locked door) that were very far from any of the undead, or on the beetles downstairs again which were not near any undead and were certainly not near Serket. I don't know where you were xping but in the 13ish years I played that game I can count on no hands the number of times I died to either Serket while leveling or blood aggro from the wights while leveling. If you were camping near either of those places you weren't doing it right. If you were 'dropping down often' you were there for another purpose and not to level. Maybe you are remembering getting genkai items there? I recall bomb coal being in there.

As far as getting lost in the jungles - you were on a chocobo. So how stressful could it have been? No one leveled there until 20+ so by then you should have had your license. If you had the airship pass before your license you were also doing it wrong.

Maps in game didn't show connections, but like with many other things the players learned and filled in the gaps. I still have maps on my walls of how to get through places like that. So yes, it could be frustrating. Did you die and lose all your progress as a result of being a little turned around at the big downed tree versus the tunnel on the lower floor?

No. That's the difference between XI and this new garbage. This new garbage is punishing with no remorse about it. XI was just an interesting place that the devs wanted you to explore and yes, maybe get lost in.

[Hamada]

There were only a handful of places to camp - either upstairs on bats\beetles in the two safe spots (Entrance and locked door) that were very far from any of the undead, or on the beetles downstairs again which were not near any undead and were certainly not near Serket. I don't know where you were xping but in the 13ish years I played that game I can count on no hands the number of times I died to either Serket while leveling or blood aggro from the wights while leveling. If you were camping near either of those places you weren't doing it right. If you were 'dropping down often' you were there for another purpose and not to level. Maybe you are remembering getting genkai items there? I recall bomb coal being in there.

As far as getting lost in the jungles - you were on a chocobo. So how stressful could it have been? No one leveled there until 20+ so by then you should have had your license. If you had the airship pass before your license you were also doing it wrong.

Maps in game didn't show connections, but like with many other things the players learned and filled in the gaps. I still have maps on my walls of how to get through places like that. So yes, it could be frustrating. Did you die and lose all your progress as a result of being a little turned around at the big downed tree versus the tunnel on the lower floor?

No. That's the difference between XI and this new garbage. This new garbage is punishing with no remorse about it. XI was just an interesting place that the devs wanted you to explore and yes, maybe get lost in.

I agree, I think people comparing this to FFXI are remembering bits and pieces. Yes there was MPK and other things, but if you where aware, you had some wiggle room to avoid it, if you made your self aware. Some levels you could just teleport or escape, or chainspell them if you have a rdm with those sub jobs.

[Rufalus]

XI was a great game. I wish we could see more of what made it great come over here. I do NOT want this dev team's interpretation of it. They don't have a clue about their own game.

I don't know how many former XI team members are on the current XIV team but I think director Yoshida at least is more a fan of Blizzard's WoW style. He was also very critical of Tanaka's XIV v1.

For what it's worth, the hotfix notes mention that they plan to continue adjusting Pagos week by week from here on out. Yesterday's fix reduced enemy HP for the elemental conflicts which is a good start at least. Can do those as filler when you're not busy and get a chance at some loot.

[Aster_E]

I don't know how many former XI team members are on the current XIV team but I think director Yoshida at least is more a fan of Blizzard's WoW style. He was also very critical of Tanaka's XIV v1.

For what it's worth, the hotfix notes mention that they plan to continue adjusting Pagos week by week from here on out. Yesterday's fix reduced enemy HP for the elemental conflicts which is a good start at least. Can do those as filler when you're not busy and get a chance at some loot.

Yeah, maybe if I'm in the mood and on Discord chat with some folks that I enjoy spending time with I might do those enough to rack up a few of those potions, HQ. If those same pals are lucky I might do some monster slaying with them to knock out my challenge log and level a smidge.