So, how is Pagos?

[InkstainedGwyn]

They left it suspiciously vague, and I feel like they're waiting to see if we stop complaining. We shouldn't. They're really good at interpreting our reactions to suit their desired outcome, which means that when we stop complaining because "ok they heard us" they can go "see! The bunny fate was the problem all along!" and clap themselves on their backs for fixing the issue. Yes, SE, we're waiting - but we're not going to stop telling you it's bad until you fix it.

[TheGrimace]

The little message to us in the hotfix notes is very non-committal.

We need them to commit.

[Hamada]

They say a picture is worth a thousand words, so here you go:
" So, how is Pagos?":

[Rangar]

The high level chain bonus is still bugged to hell and randomly won't give you credit on kills

[Hamada]

If they did that, it would destroy the whole point. You are supposed to grind not power level. It would make the people that like Pagos not like it. Relics are meant to be a grind. The early relic steps in Anemos were laughably quick, once your character had elemental level 20.

Slightly increasing chain times would help some (so people can type), but lowering HP hurts the grind. Some people want to grind. There is a great deal of old school mmo nostalgia that goes with it. It goes back to a time where you only join a group, when you know you have a least an hour to play. 2 hours was the average. They don't comment on the forums, because they don't want to deal with the hate they could receive. It's an echo chamber in here. The last thing Pagos needs is a nerf.

Having flaws in older games is not an excuse to bring them back in the name of nostalgia. Yesterday I was trying to finish my log but I couldn't because I could not find a group with my level. Making a game unplayable in the game of nostalgia is not a wise business model. Also note it worked better in the past because it had a way higher population at any given point. The idea is not practical for FFXIV and it simply does not work. Even ffxi later came out with level sync to combat that flaw, something people where asking for in the first Eureka, but for some reason ignored the player base despite it being heavily asked for. SE needs to be stop being out of touch with its user base.

[Souljacker]

Having flaws in older games is not an excuse to bring them back in the name of nostalgia. Yesterday I was trying to finish my log but I couldn't because I could not find a group with my level. Making a game unplayable in the game of nostalgia is not a wise business model. Also note it worked better in the past because it had a way higher population at any given point. The idea is not practical for FFXIV and it simply does not work. Even ffxi later came out with level sync to combat that flaw, something people where asking for in the first Eureka, but for some reason ignored the player base despite it being heavily asked for. SE needs to be stop being out of touch with its user base.

And let's not forget that you had the entire pool of players to build parties with, and multiple jobs at different given levels which extended the possibilities a great bit.

We have a pool of 144 people and the instances make absolutely no effort to distribute players by level or in any meaningful way. 144 sounds like a lot, but when every player has exactly one elemental level (as opposed to XI and even outside Eureka where every job is leveled individually), you get one shot to be within level range of any other given person before either they outlevel you or you outlevel them.

SE just doesn't think ahead which is baffling, considering they had 15 years of this to learn from.

[Zsolen]

I've never played FFXI. FFXI isn't old school. Neither is WoW. There is more free will in Pagos vs a linear dungeon. The difficulty relies on the ability to keep up the pace. I would never knock on someone for preferring the dungeons of today's mmos. I only find a few like Aurum Vale to be even remotely interesting, but I don't think they should be removed or become grindy like the relic quests should be.

Calling grinding a flaw for a relic step is silly. Grinding is not a flaw, but a feature. Relic always required some sort of grind, even in this type of mmo. Keeping up chains and positioning yourself correctly is a part of the challenge. DRG shouldn't use jump, when it could aggro another close by mob. Be aware of sprites. Don't be that party that stands next to another party. That will be learned by others over time.

Rez others in need. You have time to finish your chain, and good parties can spare a healer or RDM. You could also use LB to push one mob along, while someone raises. Play with your board. Maybe your tank doesn't need everything in defense to make up for those situations. Unless, they were harassing your group or another group, you rez them. That is how community forms. In Anemos, people would bring the 'danger noodles' to lowbies actually trying to help spawn a nm, so they would die. They would also drag a bunch of mobs to a nm on purpose. When lowbies spawned a nm on their side of the map, people got bitter over it. That's not good for community. That doesn't happen as much now, because the environment is more dangerous for everyone and the train is broken.

Even Raid groups have to clear their raids multiple times to get the gear they want, and that's with a lock out. So either do that, do this, or just run Lighthouse for a 370 weapon and then wait until next patch. You have options. Different options are available for different types of players.

Getting SE to destroy content for certain players, just so other people can have easy upgrades is a bad business move. SE wants as many types of players possible. People complained about Anemos up until the day Pagos was released. Now most people on the forums hate Pagos but like Anemos. It reminds me of the people that complain about the Disney Star Wars movies, comparing them to the much more beloved prequel trilogy. When the prequel trilogy came out, people hated it. They said it was not as good as the original movies. People also had complaints about Return of the Jedi, when it came out. Don't hate on something, because you aren't used to it. Learn what it is about, first.

[Rokke]

Lets talk about relic grinds, shall we? Aether grinding gave me the option to do different things to earn light. Sometimes I ran savage. Sometimes I farmed 24 mans for gearing alts. Most often, I just did my dailies. Books gave me the options to complete tasks in the order I wanted. Personally, I liked to knock the fates out of the way first so that I could do the kill counts little by little when I was bored. Fates could be done solo or with friends/strangers who were also working on their weapons or just willing to help out. Umbrite, crystal sands, and clusters could be bought from doing various different activities. Some were faster than others, but I could mix and match depending on my free time & how much progress I wanted to make in a night.

There are zero options here in Pagos. I'll type it again, this time in bold so hopefully my point gets through: There is no other way for me to earn this relic other than to suffer through Pagos's mindless training dummy grind. Imagine if spamming ARF was the only way to earn umbrite for the anima, that you had to hunker down and spam the dungeon over and over and over and over and over and over. Its just as stupid a concept as Pagos.

[Zsolen]

Lets talk about relic grinds, shall we? Aether grinding gave me the option to do different things to earn light. Sometimes I ran savage. Sometimes I farmed 24 mans for gearing alts. Most often, I just did my dailies. Books gave me the options to complete tasks in the order I wanted. Personally, I liked to knock the fates out of the way first so that I could do the kill counts little by little when I was bored. Fates could be done solo or with friends/strangers who were also working on their weapons or just willing to help out. Umbrite, crystal sands, and clusters could be bought from doing various different activities. Some were faster than others, but I could mix and match depending on my free time & how much progress I wanted to make in a night.

There are zero options here in Pagos. I'll type it again, this time in bold so hopefully my point gets through: There is no other way for me to earn this relic other than to suffer through Pagos's mindless training dummy grind. Imagine if spamming ARF was the only way to earn umbrite for the anima, that you had to hunker down and spam the dungeon over and over and over and over and over and over. Its just as stupid a concept as Pagos.

Then don't do relic. Why should anyone get a relic weapon, when they are focusing on other objectives/ content? You are basically asking for free stuff, while doing other things.

Bolding is no different from all caps. Please, don't do that.

If people are dying and losing chains, it isn't mindless. Anemos became mindless. Dungeons and 24 mans are mindless. A1S during the light step was mindless.

[whiteblade89]

While the location and atmosphere are cool, I freaking hate it. I managed to slog through Anemos, hoping that it would change, but it legit hasn't. It's the same old slog, and for whatever reason SE had to wait 8 months after releasing Anemos to release this? The best part of Anemos was the social factor, but I dont attribute that to the devs at all. That was the players making the best of a boring grind-fest. And now we have the exact same thing except with a challenge log this time. Great. I'm gonna go beat my head against a wall now. If the relics weren't tied behind this content, I highly doubt that anyone would be doing it.