Trying to understand the complaints about DRK

[TouchandFeel]

snip

I just linked one of the threads that I had on hand. If you look through the other WAR 4.0 threads from the time SiO comes up a lot as a regular complaint. I remember the complaints, I read them at the time, I even engaged in the discussions.

Here's another thread where SiO comes up.
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...ighlight=Shake

Again, this is just one example of where you can find such sentiment in the forums at the time. Such WAR complaints were spattered throughout many of the tank threads at the time. I don't see how you can declare such things as being "fringe" when the whole "WAR needs utility" argument was popular enough to be in a question in one of the live letters.

Sure many people just gave a generic "SiO is useless, I want it changed" response, but that doesn't provide much as to what to change it to, just that it should be changed. If you combine the sentiment that SiO should be changed with the other popular sentiment from the time of giving WAR party/raid utility and the fact that making SiO into raid utility was one of the most common suggestions for what SiO should be changed to, the correlation between what people were asking for and the changes to SiO the dev team implemented is clear.

You made the argument that "nobody was asking for the SiO changes" and that "the only real complaint was the stance dance issue". Knowing that to not be the case, I presented evidence to the contrary. Then you come back with name-calling and using conjecture to declare any opposition to your viewpoint as conjecture. If you want to engage in proper debate where actual evidence is provided, great. If you want to just come off as belligerent and dismissive while resorting to childish name-calling, your position will only come off as weak and not worth my time to engage with.

P.S. "Martha" as an insult is pretty ineffective, especially when many of the usages of Martha as a slang term is actually positive ( https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=martha ). Now if your intent was for it to be derogatory because it's a female name, well I shouldn't even have to point out the obvious problem with that.

Edit:

Here's another thread where a number of well known and often outspoken WAR mains bring up WAR utility.
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...-Warrior-in-SB
Here is a direct quote from a WAR main from pg.6 of that thread.

100% agree. I don't know why they didn't make the PvP action Thrill of War into a raid cooldown for WAR. I also once suggested a skill called Intimidation that reduced damage dealt by the mob for 10s. Either or would have worked, IMO.

Not enough yet? Okay.
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...ior-complaints
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...read-episode-2
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...r-Shake-it-off
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...ix-for-warrior
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...-potential-fix
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...eedback-Thread
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...eedback-Thread

As a bonus, another quote from a WAR main from pg.8 of the last thread linked above.

8.) That said... we completely lack utility/mitigation that isn't just on us. This is largely a problem because PLD has a ton of it and if you stack double PLDs you're never in a situation where one can't support the other, whereas if WAR is OTing at any point then he literally can't do anything to help the MT outside of Reprisal (which PLD/PLD would also have). Even DRK has BN which, though isn't as amazing as PLD's stuff, is at least something. I'd really like it if Shake It Off was changed into some sort of utility skill, we don't need as much as PLD just something to offer the party.

There are more references I could dig up but hopefully that should suffice.