Been running Ridorana Lighthouse the whole week and...

[Awha]

I do not understand how others think the greed only system is unfair it allows everyone in the party equal chance at getting the drop at the end. That seems fair in my eyes. I have also yet to win anything, but I also mostly only do it once and move on. I get the intention behind the change.

[Mahrze]

I'ma go blue in the face if I keep reposting these links.

#spreaditlikebutter

Sounds exactly like our arguments.

Now if their QA thread gets the hype and doe sa "yoshi p y u do dis" so they undo the silly thing, it'd be peachy.

I do not understand how others think the greed only system is unfair it allows everyone in the party equal chance at getting the drop at the end. That seems fair in my eyes. I have also yet to win anything, but I also mostly only do it once and move on. I get the intention behind the change.

"I dunno y u say it bad. evry1 can roll for it. 's all good. I no get anything cuz I only do eet once a wekk so idc, but I say it gud."

In a nutshell. /s

[Awha]

snip . . .

Snip . . .

Maybe I am just an odd ball, but as a tank I personally never understood why in a PUG I should get better chances over another player for getting a piece of gear, it was a group effort so in my eyes it is only fair in the entire group has a chance to roll on the item at the end. Sure it might not be fair to individual players, but it is fair for the group as a whole, since as you said everyone has an equal chance at the item.

Might just be me, but it seems Mahrze is fairly hostile and while my English is not all that great I do not think my post warranted such a flippant reply. It is what it is though.

[BillyKaplan]

Maybe I am just an odd ball, but as a tank I personally never understood why in a PUG I should get better chances over another player for getting a piece of gear

Then you need to reread my post because I listed some examples. For starters, the other players might not have the job unlocked, not to mention in a relevant level. You, however, do, proof of being on that job while in the instance. Why should they be given the same right to roll on it as someone who'd actually need the piece right now?

it was a group effort

Was it, though? Really? Healers in particular have it rough on the first weeks of 24-player raids. And you're saying that the self-same dps who spent most of the time dead has as much right to roll on the healer gear that dropped, despite it being immediate upgrade for the people who kept the party alive? Fair numbers wise. Otherwise, no, it's really not fair.

so in my eyes it is only fair in the entire group has a chance to roll on the item at the end.

And they do in every other piece of content - assuming the people with Need roles did not use them so the Greed roll initiates. It's not like people never manage to Greed anything with the Need button enabled.

Sure it might not be fair to individual players, but it is fair for the group as a whole

Ok see if you can follow this concept - a group is made of individuals.

Don't really see how all-greed is any more or less fair than fighting 7 other people for a shaft in Sigma for four weeks - only that Ridorana takes awhile and you can't focus a certain boss.

Like you said, it's much shorter. There can also be a debate about difficulty if only due to how many people are in the instance. Then there's the fact that in Sigma you have much less rng to fight because the drops are currency - you don't have to run it a billion times only to get to the last chest in the Lighthouse and see that your caster chest piece didn't drop. Again. And if you disband on Hashmel while you needed a top piece, which only drops from the 3rd and 4th chests? It's not even comparable when you think about it like that.

[Seniade]

Was it, though? Really? Healers in particular have it rough on the first weeks of 24-player raids. And you're saying that the self-same dps who spent most of the time dead has as much right to roll on the healer gear that dropped, despite it being immediate upgrade for the people who kept the party alive? Fair numbers wise. Otherwise, no, it's really not fair.

This was worse with the old system: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...90#post4019190
I quite frequently saw players horribly under-geared using accessories to bypass the min item level, that didn't know how to play their alt class, just to skew the gear rolls in their favor.

[BillyKaplan]

I quite frequently saw players horribly under-geared using accessories to bypass the min item level

You know what would help with that? Being able to roll Need on a healer piece that dropped in that instance instead of losing it to a MNK which is what happens right now.
As for your particular example with accessories, I notice your post is well over a year old. Since then 61+ accessories became role-locked so people can't do that anymore.

that didn't know how to play their alt class

I'll let you in on a secret. Some people don't know how to play their mains.

[Seniade]

You know what would help with that? Being able to roll Need on a healer piece that dropped in that instance instead of losing it to a MNK which is what happens right now.
As for your particular example with accessories, I notice your post is well over a year old. You may have noticed that in the meanwhile, 61+ accessories became role-locked so that people can't do that anymore.

The player did have healer accessories. The problem is that for average item level requirements, all pieces are treated equal, but accessories have the lowest overall stats and a lack of defense.

I'd rather lose a roll to a MNK that actually played competently than to a dead weight co-healer that's really a DPS main that's just moonlighting as a healer for improved roll odds.

[Tsumdere]

I'll let you in on a secret. Some people don't know how to play their mains.

This greed only system has not made runs smoother. I've had more stupid people in Ridorana than ever before because now people are just doing whatever they want because they can roll on whatever they want. I've eaten tank busters as a RDM WITH Diversion on in a couple of those bosses because people who just want fast queue as tanks go in and sit on their thumbs the whole time.

Also, I have seen an influx of people sitting on loot come last boss, refusing to roll until the timer runs out. They want people to get frustrated and leave so they have a better chance of winning. I am guilty of this as well - I did Void Ark on NIN for the top and it dropped and I rolled a 98. At least 5 other people made me wait out the timer (hey, I can do homework while I wait) because THEY wanted it too. It's all and all a super obnoxious system that is just causing vitriol in parties.

[Alleo]

This was worse with the old system: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...90#post4019190
I quite frequently saw players horribly under-geared using accessories to bypass the min item level, that didn't know how to play their alt class, just to skew the gear rolls in their favor.

And now they can do the exact same thing but roll on gear that someone that does great for the party would need and win it thus take it away from someone that did their job and that needed it.

Also people should not forget that you could have still updated your other jobs with the old system. If no certain DD was in the group, anyone could greed on it, and if the healers or the tank did not need the item in any way they could pass on it and someone else could get it for the job. But at least it gave those that go into this with certain jobs the first chance to roll on it.

Now its just: Hopefully none of the other 7 people roll on the tank/healer/DD pieces that I need and hopefully I get anything out of this at all. And honestly the tank and healer pieces are probably the most wanted ones next to those for glamour. So all the tanks and healers that are running it now will never have the safety of the old system, where they could at least now that they got the item with a 100 or 50 % chance if it finally drops.

[Awha]

Not really here to argue just trying to understand at this point. So more less if player is the right role / job despite their reasoning for rolling need either it be for an upgrade, FC hand in, or glam they should be granted priority over the rest of the group because they happened to queue up as said roll and or job?

Because it removes control away from players and makes everyone entirely dependent on multiple layers of RNG. If they wanted a fully equal opportunity system, adopt a token system so people aren't forced to not only run Ridorana several times, but run it several more when something like the OP depicted happens.

What concerns me is if they adopted this system in other content. Twelve help us all if Savage had Greed only rules. If you ever want to kill a pug scene...

I have mentioned before I do wish they would go with a token based system or some trade in system then this all greed thing would work out. I will agree it is not a perfect system, and it does remove control from the players and puts everyone in the same RNG boat which in my eyes beats having other players be granted priority simply for happening to be the right job / role. Either way I do agree a token based system would be the ideal, but this current system is still far more of an equal opportunity system then what we had before. You are 100% right if this system went into savage as is it would kill the PuG scene, this greed all system does give me hope of them switching to a token based loot system come 5.0 a lala can dream right.