Increasing difficulty in casual content ≠ Savage

[Paladinleeds]

You wouldn't be allowed to make any mistakes, mostly. You answered yourself. The healer gets caught by a ghost, you wipe because he can't kill it fast enough before people die. The healer makes any mistake at all, and you are all dead. Essentially we are talking landsides and being knocked off arenas, but one person getting such would just make it a fast wipe instead of a slow limp to the finish. If you get nailed once, game over.

Great! Perfect! I actually like mechanics like that one in Thordan where if ANYONE dies it's an insta-wipe. Please use that liberally SE! (I'm serious!) Then the burden is on everyone equally.

I don't think a lot of people would be into that kind of content. If its decently hard, combined with no real redundancy, its going to be worse than ex trials. I mean, at least in them you can recover from a mistake either with your cohealer or cotank, or 3 dps can cover for a fourth. It's not easy, and may not always be possible, but you can. In 4-man, healer missed the mechanic? wipe. Healer dies to a specific mechanic but gets the rest? Wipe, instead of being able to finish.

I mean, everyone here talks a lot of junk about wanting hard content, but noone here is going to love 45 min dungeons or 20 min vote disbands because no one can drop the meteors correctly.

Then people learn to do mechanics. If it's done consistently, then people will learn to do mechanics. Those that will ragequit over mistakes will just go off and make their own parties. Win win to me. Those who are willing to stick around and progress will keep queueing. Means better experiences for players all round. Double win!

Yeah you probably suck, with that attitude. And you like to berate non raiders about being elitist.

Pot. Meet kettle.

It's funny because I loathe that mechanic. As a healer main, I'm... irrelevant. The game forbids me from doing my job. Not only can I not prevent it (which is the point), I also can't recover it. Whoever failed it gets to watch the game for a few minutes and do nothing (or more likely: get up and get a drink) and I get to not do what I'm there to do. It's not fun for anyone.

The revised version on something like Ravana/Bismarck (or Hashmal's tower crushing) are IMO far better. They clearly punish anyone who fails tremendously, but not in a "you're watching the rest of the fight and I'm powerless to do anything about it" way.

I actually hate that knockoff mechanics now just mean you have to wait a few seconds before you can be ressed. Falling off should mean falling off and you're out for the rest of the fight. When they changed that in Sophia I was baffled. To this day I STILL hate that change.

Just make them like T9 where the walls instagib you but you don't fall off so you can be ressed. Maybe even add a "Resurrection Blocker" debuff for some time if you want to stop them being able to be instantly ressed. Maybe save the falloff mechanics for Ex versions only as well?

[Tridus]

I actually hate that knockoff mechanics now just mean you have to wait a few seconds before you can be ressed. Falling off should mean falling off and you're out for the rest of the fight. When they changed that in Sophia I was baffled. To this day I STILL hate that change.

The problem with that is that it's not interactive. If you fall of early because of lag or a mistake and it's a 10 minute fight, what are you now doing? Playing on your phone, alt+tabbing to something else, getting up and leaving the game entirely, or in the worst case scenario, the group calls for a wipe and restart because you now can't beat enrage and will fail in 8 minutes (granted this one can happen in some fights anyway if you're very tight on DPS already, but this would make it far worse).

All of those, frankly, suck. Telling people to stop playing the game for extended periods of time is flat out poor game design as you're encouraging people to leave the game to go do something else. You're not allowing them to learn from mistakes by getting up and trying it again, and you're excessively punishing the rest of the group by dramatically increasing the cost of a death to the party. If a healer dies, should the outcome of that really be to punish the other healer by forcing them to solo heal the entire thing?

[Paladinleeds]

All of those, frankly, suck. Telling people to stop playing the game for extended periods of time is flat out poor game design as you're encouraging people to leave the game to go do something else.

I did push out a response for that. Just make them like the walls in T5/9. If you land in it you die instantly, maybe even with a debuff that blocks resurrection for a time. I agree that the falloff mechanic is overused, and that it should be used less. But please make falloff actually mean fall out of the arena for the attempt. In its current state, what's the difference between a falloff vs a wall that simply instagibs you? That's what baffles me. The falloff is just a death wall with a different coat of paint.

Like my preference would be something closer to much longer timeout (eg 30 seconds) before being returned to the platform, and it could be done cheekily with Midgardsormr just tossing you back onto the platform with 1hp, so the healer has to get you right away or you're going to get ko'd by the next thing and need a rez anyway. But you need to also make sure it's not a way to cheat an enrage mechanic, so "everyone jump off" = reset.

Yeah, I hear you. Hence the "Resurrection Blocker" debuff to keep you from being able to be immediately ressed. I do like that idea of Middy throwing you back on with 1HP. That's an idea I could get behind. But now I'm reminded of Lakitu in Mariokart just cheekily chucking you back on the track with that smug grin on his cloud... The idea is I want falling off to not just be a death wall with a different coat of paint, but the only way I could think of was "Out = out". Your idea of chucking them back on after 30 seconds with 1HP would achieve making falling off be something different. Good out of box thinking.

[KisaiTenshi]

I actually hate that knockoff mechanics now just mean you have to wait a few seconds before you can be ressed. Falling off should mean falling off and you're out for the rest of the fight. When they changed that in Sophia I was baffled. To this day I STILL hate that change.

Just make them like T9 where the walls instagib you but you don't fall off so you can be ressed. Maybe even add a "Resurrection Blocker" debuff for some time if you want to stop them being able to be instantly ressed. Maybe save the falloff mechanics for Ex versions only as well?

I suppose there was probably outcry about how that "fall off" mechanic works, seeing as it originated in Titan, and newbies would get a quick carry just by screwing up. Don't reward screwups with a carry that way.

Like my preference would be something closer to much longer timeout (eg 30 seconds) before being returned to the platform, and it could be done cheekily with Midgardsormr just tossing you back onto the platform with 1hp, so the healer has to get you right away or you're going to get ko'd by the next thing and need a rez anyway. But you need to also make sure it's not a way to cheat an enrage mechanic, so "everyone jump off" = reset.