Please Reconsider MSQ Changes

[Vstarstruck]

Nowhere did i say that you said I specifically was whining, i was referring to basically the majority of the people in this thread that you were attacking with a kiddish word as such
You assume i was agitated and then use that to try help the rest of your argument. Just because i was a bit aggressive with the way i worded my argument in no way just instantly meant it was because i was agitated. That is an assumption on your part. I never said you never had issues with something SE could have done before either. It's just the way you counter argue with the majority of the people here in this thread who have perfectly valid points makes it look like you just want to argue simply because you want to defend SE for no good reason. Not once did you actually state a good point in your previous post. I was simply voicing that out to everyone and also pointing out that calling people whiners only makes yourself look more white knightish and immature. That's just how i view it and that was only my opinion. As for anything else you may have said in your recent reply i really don't feel like reading all of that. I will just leave this reply to the stuff i skimmed and leave it at that.

Added Edit:


After skimming this i have to reply. I don't think that is justified in any way as no one should get to choose what "type" of person should play or not play the game. The way you say this is as if you think SE should pander to a specific group of the many groups who play their game just because thats the type of people you like more which in itself shows ALOT how biased you really are, and i mean blatantly. That is an incorrect way to think, the game should be for everyone to play and enjoy and when SE starts changing the game to pander to a minority is when things like this current backlash happens. Just because YOU want your way with the community does not mean it is moral (not that you said anything about morality, but i am). I really shouldn't have to make these points out to you as they should be obvious and the heavy backlash pretty much shows it already though.

Mizunoko i fully support you, and I am sure you are not the first nor last to be frustrated with Krotoan.

I would like to point out their sig, basically advertising how they are told kettle black a lot. So they act like that to troll, or they really do not know they are told that a lot?

As for this:

I'm saying complaining the XP per minute has suffered and how much this change has impacted the playtime of everyone so badly and it should never have been done is selfish and silly.

NO IT IS NOT SELFISH!!! that impacts queue times. If your not giving enough exp/per hour in doing something, people are not going to do said thing in mass, hence why there needs to be a roulette to begin with to help people find groups. The 4.2 change defeats the purpose of the roulette, as it means a large player base is not running it, thus not being ran.

Also you never once discussed with me how bad of a change it is when it effects the inn room and people making their own groups. Accept SE makes mistakes and not well thought out ideas at times.

You've stated you didn't read all of what I said and were choosing to reply only to what you've gleaned. Explain to me how that encourages dialogue if you're going to ignore certain parts of what I say and only respond to what you want?

Lol you do the same thing to me, only you ignore the important points of mine, again your kettle black. I guess you need to meet the kettle once again.

In the end, you give people a choice, people had options before 4.2, now people have none to cater to a tiny minority, not how you do things. You do not force one type of play on someone else, esp when your forcing the minority type of play on the majority. Remember, there are plenty of new players that do want to skip the CS. We do not know how many new players there was or will be in the future because SE did not walk over those players and say they do not matter till 4.2. That is very insulting, to me.

[Iscah]

The biggest issue is... did this help new players, or hike their queue time up dramatically?

I've tested it a few times, mostly 'peak' time weekend/evening (just because that's when I've remembered about it) and it seems to be 10-20 minutes for DPS at the moment. It's longer than the leveling roulette queue but it's still a perfectly normal wait time for DPS players queuing for a specific dungeon.

[Alleo]

I guess poking right back, yes the forums are the tiny minority, so why was the posts from "new players" here taken to force this change? Clearly we aren't enough of a sample based on the statement that it "barely effects us." Why were they?

I mean, if in game statistics are a thing, I've seen more ninja's use Shadewalker to try and force wipes or force larger pulls than I've seen anyone upset they fell behind. Yet you still can't remove Shadewalker's effect. Both ruin a player's experience. Yet players skipping cutscenes was deemed a far worse issue.

And lets not forget that SE does have the data and they already plan on increasing the reward for the roulette..why would they do that if they are happy with the amount of vets running it? It might not be as worse as we believed it would be but its seemingly not in the numbers that SE wanted. So that is a clear sign to me that maybe this affected more than they hoped it would.

@Krotoan: You know people can be annoyed at a chance even if they are not personally part of it..some of us (especially us main DD) know how horrible long queue times are and we might just feel bad for all those newer players that will not like the chance. Also we might just be a bit annoyed at SE for changing it in that way instead of providing a good long term solution...(like solo instance) It was the same with the ARR story line..people complained a lot about the boring MSQ but instead of changing them a bit they just gave us Jump potions..completely forgetting that this game will be running a long time and only a small amount of people would pay that much to jump over a story so that not changing anything will probably lose them newer players..

[Krotoan]

And lets not forget that SE does have the data and they already plan on increasing the reward for the roulette..why would they do that if they are happy with the amount of vets running it? It might not be as worse as we believed it would be but its seemingly not in the numbers that SE wanted. So that is a clear sign to me that maybe this affected more than they hoped it would.
@Krotoan: You know people can be annoyed at a chance even if they are not personally part of it..some of us (especially us main DD) know how horrible long queue times are and we might just feel bad for all those newer players that will not like the chance. Also we might just be a bit annoyed at SE for changing it in that way instead of providing a good long term solution...(like solo instance) It was the same with the ARR story line..people complained a lot about the boring MSQ but instead of changing them a bit they just gave us Jump potions..completely forgetting that this game will be running a long time and only a small amount of people would pay that much to jump over a story so that not changing anything will probably lose them newer players..

Indeed they are changing the reward, but is that because of people running has been low? I don't know, and I don't think anyone else outside SE does either. It's very possible yes, but there are other reasons it could have been done. None of us can claim knowledge so it's weird when people make definitive statements like "it proves the queues are too slow". Maybe they've paid attention to the forums with people saying it doesn't feel like enough. Maybe after running numbers with people actually going through against other runs the feel it doesn't align with the projected gain from other roulettes. Lotta maybes there. I know who has absolutely no idea though: The people who haven't run it more than once since the change.

I'm gonna assume you mean change. Empathy is nice, but getting outraged for someone else and speaking for them isn't great either. I don't think the jump potions were for people who didn't enjoy the MSQ dungeons in the roulette particularly, they seemed to be marketed toward people who got friends to join and wanted to adventure together in the new content instead of waiting a week for them to catch up. That's my own point of view though so once again, how can you know what they intended? I don't disagree that SE should have done something with the MSQ retroactively and smoothed it out for later patches. But asking them to revert this change immediately without seeing or experiencing it's impact, especially when most of the arguments are boiling down to "it's not enough reward for this" and "what if my alt.. " both pretty selfish when weighed against a new players first experience.

I get there are upset people, and there always will be. Someone is always not going to like how something gets done. Go ahead and post your grievance but be prepared for people to call you out if you say things like "the majority of players" or "this is bad for everyone" with no numbers or facts to back it up besides personal anecdotes. I am personally of the opinion that the unskippable cutscenes bleeding into undersized parties and solo runs is an undesirable change but if given the choice between before and after the patch I'm going to say the people missing out on the most were the people who wanted to watch story BEFORE. If you compare the options they had then, vs the options people have for xp and getting through the MSQ on alts now, I'd say this new arrangement is the better deal. I also get that this is based on my own personal values, which aren't going to change. I'd be glad to explain , again, why I feel this way, but you're never going to get me to say people who want to repeat/redo/skip something should be allowed to do it while people who want to experience the game as it was designed have to find a workaround.

People who want to experience the story will come back , again and again for expansions and patches, and new people who are the same will go back and want to experience all the side stories as well, while people who just want gear/progression will consume current content quickly and then get bored, or complain about no endgame content and leave. I think more money lies in the former.

[Mizunoko]

I don't think the jump potions were for people who didn't enjoy the MSQ dungeons in the roulette particularly, they seemed to be marketed toward people who got friends to join and wanted to adventure together in the new content instead of waiting a week for them to catch up.

Yes and no, let me state some common sense about how this statement is mostly incorrect. If what you said were the case then why did SE separate the story jump potions and lvl jump potions. Obviously they wanted to give players a CHOICE and yes even new players too. The fact that there is even a story skip potion you can buy backs that up and not only for alts who already seen the story, but new people who don't care about the story and just want to get to the main action with their end game buddies. Now let me state even more common sense. AFTER introducing story skip potions in mog station to give players a CHOICE if they want to view the story or not and then to FORCE story line (cut scenes) in a dungeon is completely contradictory i might even go so far as to say its just redundantly insane. While it was marketed mostly for people who wanted to just skip ahead to play with friends the fact that they introduced a separate story skip potion tells us a lot as well as conflicts with this current issue now if you think about it logically. Also you and others seem to keep assuming that you know whats best for new players as if they were all children and didn't know what they wanted for themselves. You can't speak for all the new players. Some of them don't want to watch cut scenes, which only makes the minority even more of a minority of the players that do. There was no problems with having a choice in the first place, no one was stopping new people from watching the scenes nor could they on a Terms of Service standpoint. Lets not forget a lot of new players who did want to see them did not feel like it ruined the story to view it later at the inn. Players have a RIGHT to play the game and view it how they wish. Which makes me amazed at how you speak as if you don't understand the backlash, when it was obvious there would be backlash for obvious reasons. When all is said and done you can voice your points if you want, but you are doing it in this thread where most of the replies are on the opposite side of yours. You can go on and spout that there is no statistics or whatever and say that saying majority means nothing, but this thread in itself is the statistics and that's the part that keeps flying over your head. If you want statistics go back to page one and read on.

[TaranTatsuuchi]

On the subject of not being able to punish people exploiting a way to skip the cutscenes...


I still think people who do so should be reported.
Perhaps a single instance isn't something...

But a pattern of it?
That will show intent.

And SE can look into those reports and check their logs.
If they find evidence of intent to exploit, they can take action.

[BillyKaplan]

And SE can look into those reports and check their logs.
If they find evidence of intent to exploit, they can take action.

1. A single occurrence is not enough to report someone and no player will have the necessary information. All this'll do is likely make more work for SE.
2. You are once again targeting the innocents who legitimately have bad connections. Whether or not they should be playing a game like this to begin with is a question in and of itself, but it's not like we're discussing Savage here, just ARR MSQ.

Indeed they are changing the reward, but is that because of people running has been low? I don't know, and I don't think anyone else outside SE does either.

I don't get why people refuse to acknowledge SE's statement about it for what it is - acknowledgement that this change was bad. Queues don't even have to be dead, this is SE saying in no uncertain terms "we are not pleased with the way things are after this change". And mind you this happened two weeks after the change was introduced, so whatever numbers they're seeing, whatever it's low queue numbers or just the extreme backlash in the many threads on the forums, it's so potent that SE themselves want to do something about it. It's like you're given proof that your stance isn't infallible and then you're performing any number of logical gymnastics to pretend it doesn't invalidate your stance when it does. Is it the doom and gloom predicted before where this became a Mentor roulette only queue?
We don't know. So your queue popped after 10 minutes, congratulations, it doesn't mean anything. Every single person here can only speak from their own personal experiences but that is also to say none of us have anything saying it didn't. As all of us agree, SE has the numbers, SE hears the feedback, and they decided, at the very least, that the awards aren't enough. Bury your head in the sand all you want, that's the truth of the matter right now.

[Krotoan]

Yes and no, ....

Now do I bother to respond to you and have you ignore any points I bring up? You've apparently found it worth it to comment on my ONE point you have an opinion on.

Fine, let's be cordial and respond then.
I can make no assumptions about the separation of story and level pots. I said "They seemed". That was the marketing they employed. This is exactly what my friends did in fact. They paid for the pots because they wanted to play along side me immediately and without the pot I would have had to wait the week or more it would have taken them to catch up alone since I mainly get to play on weekends and couldn't help them. Personally I think the separation of pots may be for maximization of profit and it also allowed for more leveling pots to be sold later once the restriction was lifted. I don't think the decision to separate them had anything to do with this last patch and vice versa. Pots came into play quite a while ago while this change likely didn't require much development time at all.

I don't know what's best for new players no and have never said I knew, but if I was new and I wanted to watch the story I know I'd want to be able to without having to research on the net how to get that done. I'd want the game to make that happen without extra input especially if I've been being led like this since the beginning of the game. I was lucky enough to experience the MSQ when it came out and running through it as it was designed to be run was amazing for me. Likewise you cannot speak for all veterans but are voicing what you would like someone to do for you, and are considering what other veterans would have concerns with. However as another veteran I'm disagreeing with you.

"Minority, a lot." .. waiting on hard data you don't have.
Yes people were stopping people from viewing cutscenes, it was either skip, or be lost, or LEAVE and try and join another run and ask if THEY'D wait, or find out how to use PF and sit around gathering a PF that was willing to wait.

Now let me say this very important thing. You have absolutely no rights to anything here. You have signed an agreement when you clicked OK that not only are you going to play by the publishing companies rules, they reserve the right to cease providing access to this game at any moment for any reason. This isn't an opinion either, this is legally true. Now, whether they DO this or not is how the company is perceived and public backlash for them choosing how they utilize this power over you results in their popularity and sales going up or down. The idea that you have a right to any of this sounds entitled and makes me think you don't understand that you're utilizing a service provided by a company who owns all aspects of it. Are they infallible? No. Do we owe them our gratitude and loyalty? Heck no. This is a business transaction and to perceive it as anything else is harmful to your expectations and will disappoint you in the end.
Now this doesn't mean you need to shut up and "my way or the highway" it, that's not my intent. But saying you have a RIGHT to something like this is just untrue.

I've been in this thread from the beginning and have seen nothing but unsubstantiated claims about majorities and personal claims of insane queue times... and I've also seen many claiming the opposite.. which ones are right? Perhaps you skipped the part I wrote last time about this but: This thread is a very poor representation of the playerbase.

I Don't CARE how many people agree with me, this isn't high school and I don't need to win any popularity contests. This is my opinion and my take on the situation. I don't need a "safe" thread for my "unpopular" opinion. I have no issues with people disagreeing with me and I welcome actual arguments for or against the changes.

I don't get why people refuse to acknowledge SE's statement about it for what it is - acknowledgement that this change was bad. Queues don't even have to be dead, this is SE saying in no uncertain terms "we are not pleased with the way things are after this change". And mind you this happened two weeks after the change was introduced, so whatever numbers they're seeing, whatever it's low queue numbers or just the extreme backlash in the many threads on the forums, it's so potent that SE themselves want to do something about it. It's like you're given proof that your stance isn't infallible and then you're performing any number of logical gymnastics to pretend it doesn't invalidate your stance when it does. Is it the doom and gloom predicted before where this became a Mentor roulette only queue?
We don't know. So your queue popped after 10 minutes, congratulations, it doesn't mean anything. Every single person here can only speak from their own personal experiences but that is also to say none of us have anything saying it didn't. As all of us agree, SE has the numbers, SE hears the feedback, and they decided, at the very least, that the awards aren't enough. Bury your head in the sand all you want, that's the truth of the matter right now.

I agree they saw something they think needed adjustment. I've never denied that. I just don't have your confidence in the fact that it's exactly one thing (specifically that the change was "bad" )and will continue to repeat that we cannot and will not know exactly why they do anything without an official announcement or published numbers. No uncertain terms would be an outright declaration of what had happened and a reversion of the changes. When this happens you can say that. Until then it's all conjecture and it requires absolutely no "mental gymnastics" to sit back and see what happens without yelling that the sky is falling.

[Mizunoko]

and will continue to repeat that we cannot and will not know exactly why they do anything without an official announcement or published numbers. No uncertain terms would be an outright declaration of what had happened and a reversion of the changes. When this happens you can say that. Until then it's all conjecture and it requires absolutely no "mental gymnastics" to sit back and see what happens without yelling that the sky is falling.

You keep spouting this nonsense about SE and the numbers.....numbers of what? Did people not already tell you just because just one data point of many may or may not be bad does not determine if what SE did was a bad choice or not. I referred you to page one in one of my previous replies so you can start reading this whole thread to teach you the concept of feedback. This thread IS a data point in and of itself if you want to claim that we need data points. SE does not need some numbers pulled from game statistics to realize they made a bad choice, and i shouldn't have to repeat this to you over and over along with half the other people here trying to do so as well. It's called feedback for a reason. And i'm not going to read that whole ridiculous block of text you just posted, because i know all you keep doing is putting yourself in a loop with points that have already been refuted or just plain illogical. If you want to keep writing essays that basically keep saying the same things over and over only worded differently even though many people keep proving them incorrect then by all means go for it and waste the time. I have already proven my valid points to you like 3 times now and i'm not going to keep doing it when everything just keeps flying over your head. Also i have no clue where you're getting this thing about me ignoring you, and that is also one thing i have already corrected you on so perhaps you should go back a page and re-read all my posts as well.

[kikix12]

But a pattern of it?
That will show intent.

When logging sometimes, I repeatedly get disconnected after each few minutes. And it usually happens right after a pull starts (you know, more data sent/received). And it's not my problem. It's the connection between me and server, or servers. I can play perfectly fine usually (as far as the connection goes, anyway) and the game never says that my connection is any worse than "Good", often being "Excellent".

Square would need to invest in both their own infrastructure (frequent DDoS attacks, countless bottlenecks, servers over capacity etc.) as well as location to one that have better connection worldwide (California is in such a place, that its connection to other countries is crippling any game located there for players from other continents). Neither of these will happen, so you can be certain that players will be banned for no fault of their own.