Please Reconsider MSQ Changes

[Krotoan]

Let's revisit this statement, shall we? The problem in this case is "New players are in the roulette and want to see cutscenes and enjoy the duty as it was intended".
But sadly, that's a very specific case. More often than not you'll likely find no new players in that duty, new players who don't care about cutscenes, or new alts who have seen the cutscenes dozens of times before and couldn't care less.
It doesn't even matter how well this solution solves or doesn't solve the problem SE set out to 'fix' - it actually ignores the majority of scenarios and therefore is severely lacking.

The other two possibilities for people running that same roulette were: People who wanted another "daily" bonus and people who want to just run through the story for alts or completing it and don't care about the story.

Right?

You're talking about what happened through the old system. People would run it BECAUSE it was a decent way to grab another chunk of XP. Not because it was MSQ, that just happened to be one checkmark on a list they could tick off every day for an extra bit. There were less involved things to run constantly if you weren't going for the daily bonus. Things that were more "efficient".

The things they were actually getting complaints about were from new players basically quitting because the MSQ ending which should have been an epic experience, was toxic, rushed and a mishmash of cutscene after cutscene that made no sense. They were then plunged into the end of the game(arr) without any understandable context. You can search for yourself. There were several threads even on the forum about it.
The reason posted by the devs themselves "We'll be making adjustments to the main scenario dungeons, so that new players can enjoy them without worrying."
It doesn't matter? So the people who want to play this game and experience the story, something for which this game is KNOWN and in my opinion sets it apart from all of it's competition, don't matter?

[BillyKaplan]

The things they were actually getting complaints about were from new players basically quitting because the MSQ ending which should have been an epic experience, was toxic, rushed and a mishmash of cutscene after cutscene that made no sense. They were then plunged into the end of the game(arr) without any understandable context. You can search for yourself. There were several threads even on the forum about it.

This is the part where I remind you you're fighting a windmill because no one thinks things were fine the way they were before. So you can stop reminding me of this. And you could also read my posts in full to see I got around that myself because I wanted to enjoy the experience. I know what that is like for first timers who care. I know. Chill.

The reason posted by the devs themselves "We'll be making adjustments to the main scenario dungeons, so that new players can enjoy them without worrying."

And to hell with the new players who don't care, amirite? They also exist. And what about fast readers who'd like to click their own texts? What about slow readers who can't read fast enough before the texts shift over?
This solution doesn't even cover the entirety of the demographic they claim they wanted to cater for.

The problem with both you and Reynhart is that you think if anyone is displeased with this solution, then they're against finding a solution for this period and we should be happy with this new situation just because they addressed the issue to begin with. That's not how it works. And you'd also do well to notice that the majority of people are advocating for it to become a solo duty - we're throwing the roulette out the window to begin with so no one is holding onto their precious 'check entry on the daily to-do list'.

[Reynhart]

And to hell with the new players who don't care, amirite? They also exist. And what about fast readers who'd like to click their own texts? What about slow readers who can't read fast enough before the texts shift over?
This solution doesn't even cover the entirety of the demographic they claim they wanted to cater for.

This solution does not need to cover the majority of the demographic. Fast readers and new players who don't care can be part of the problem as much has veteran players, simply by forcing players who do care to rush through the cutscenes. For slow readers, I'm not really sure how slow you need to be to not being able to follow the pace.

And you'd also do well to notice that the majority of people are advocating for it to become a solo duty - we're throwing the roulette out the window to begin with so no one is holding onto their precious 'check entry on the daily to-do list'.

This is what I don't understand...for veteran players, who are basically those complaining that the MSQ roulette is wasted, what would they gain if those dungeons are changed into solo duties ? Either way, you wouldn't have access to it for leveling and farming, so you shouldn't bother how much time the roulette takes or how much it rewards you even now. The only thing that would do is prevent those who like the MSQ roulette as it is to do in the future.

[JCharms]

This is what I don't understand...for veteran players, who are basically those complaining that the MSQ roulette is wasted, what would they gain if those dungeons are changed into solo duties ? Either way, you wouldn't have access to it for leveling and farming, so you shouldn't bother how much time the roulette takes or how much it rewards you even now. The only thing that would do is prevent those who like the MSQ roulette as it is to do in the future.

Things that make you go Hmmmm!
I've been reading this thread and I found this odd as well, it doesn't make sense, its like theres some agenda hiding in there, because its simply a case of do it, or don't.
It's up to each individual if they deem it worth their time, or maybe enjoy helping new players at a slow and chill pace.
For all SE's failings for which there are plenty, the one thing they do do well is metrics, if it doesn't work, they will know about pretty quickly and do something about it, nothing said on these forums will have any sway in that.

[Krotoan]

And to hell with the new players who don't care, amirite? They also exist. And what about fast readers who'd like to click their own texts? What about slow readers who can't read fast enough before the texts shift over?
This solution doesn't even cover the entirety of the demographic they claim they wanted to cater for.

The problem with both you and Reynhart is that you think if anyone is displeased with this solution, then they're against finding a solution for this period and we should be happy with this new situation just because they addressed the issue to begin with. That's not how it works. And you'd also do well to notice that the majority of people are advocating for it to become a solo duty - we're throwing the roulette out the window to begin with so no one is holding onto their precious 'check entry on the daily to-do list'.

And you claim to know what I think.

Not to hell. They have their solution. PF. Did you forget about party finder? People who read extremely quickly can wait. Oh gods.. gods forbid someone waits during these dungeons that happen ONCE each in every characters story. The people who cannot read fast enough? Alright, there's consideration there, but we've gotten no complaints yet. From what I've seen if you read fast enough to read at a speaking speed you're OK. But yes, lets not leave out people with certain disabilities. Maybe also include the text in the chat so they CAN read it at their own pace. There are solutions that can be had for that problem.

I've noticed the people who are advocating for it to be a solo duty, and all the work and development that would entail, which is a highly unlikely course of action for a company that in the past has left old content to rot unless absolutely necessary and even then will take the path of least investment. Throw out roulette, but ask for days of development work instead. Do YOU think SE would pick that avenue? Are you under the impression it would be a quick thing to implement, quick in development terms of course?

I'm not the one complaining it's taking too long now. If that doesn't apply to you, then frankly, mind your own business.

The situation has changed, the pool of people running the dungeons has gotten larger and the possibility for the MSQ roulette to be functional WITHOUT rushing sprouts through their stories or breaking the lines is there. Howbout we see if this works? Right now the only people complaining are the "this used to be leveling checkbox" crowd.

I DON'T think you're against finding a solution. I don't agree with your solution. I think your solution is unlikely and overly involved for such outdated content.

[BillyKaplan]

Do YOU think SE would pick that avenue? Are you under the impression it would be a quick thing to implement, quick in development terms of course?

Of course not, but long term I believe it'd be more beneficial to the game than any Perform revamps they dished out this patch that could harmlessly have come out later.

Right now the only people complaining are the "this used to be leveling checkbox" crowd.

I don't see anyone complaining so much as just not running it. Be it that I'll eventually have to run my alts through it, however, this does in fact concern me regardless.

I think your solution is unlikely and overly involved for such outdated content.

Content all charas have to go through unless they line SE's pockets by buying the story potion. If they were suddenly tweaking Coils, I'd have agreed with you, but they're not.

[Krotoan]

Of course not, but long term I believe it'd be more beneficial to the game than any Perform revamps they dished out this patch that could harmlessly have come out later.

I don't particularly LIKE the perform thing. In fact it's possibly the most personally annoying thing they've implemented in my opinion. I was super happy when they implemented an option to turn it off. But People do like it and use it. You'd be telling people their particular content was less important.

I don't see anyone complaining so much as just not running it. Be it that I'll eventually have to run my alts through it, however, this does in fact concern me regardless.

You don't consider the tens of posts in this very thread saying it's stupid and saying they won't run it complaining? Odd, I do. And when you run your alts through it I personally promise if my sub is still valid to collect 5 of my friends to rush you through it unsynched if you cannot find a PF to do the same. I truly don't think it will be an issue for people who want to rush through it to find people who'll do it.

Content all charas have to go through unless they line SE's pockets by buying the story potion. If they were suddenly tweaking Coils, I'd have agreed with you, but they're not.

I'm never going to convince someone who thinks SE makes every decision in the direction of the cash shop that this was made in the majority of the people experiencing the problems best interest (while of course saving money and encouraging those new players to continue spending money). You have your opinions of SE and I have mine. I'm not arguing the "cash shop is king" line because I think that's idiotic. There are many ways for a company to make money and most of them are very good at making it much less obvious. But if you think that was the driving force behind this decision, my experience trying to convince others that this was likely not the case tells me to just stop.

[BillyKaplan]

I don't particularly LIKE the perform thing. In fact it's possibly the most personally annoying thing they've implemented in my opinion. I was super happy when they implemented an option to turn it off. But People do like it and use it. You'd be telling people their particular content was less important.

From the game's perspective, it factually is.

And when you run your alts through it I personally promise if my sub is still valid to collect 5 of my friends to rush you through it unsynched if you cannot find a PF to do the same.

If I run it unsynced I'll power my alt to 60 in POTD and unsync it myself, that's not the problem. I'll still have to sit through the same cutscenes I don't care about. I just ran it unsynced on a level 70 and I still had to watch the gosh darned cutscenes. They should have at least limited it to there being a first timer in the instance. There isn't? You won, it's going to be a fast roulette. There is? You knew what you were queueing for to begin with so it's all good.

I'm never going to convince someone who thinks SE makes every decision in the direction of the cash shop

You told me I didn't know what you were thinking, so I'll throw that right back at you. I don't think they did it for money, though I can see a lot of people going there to avoid this on alts. I think they picked the path of least resistance without actually checking what resistances would arise as a result.

An aside, it only says the cutscenes will not be skipable on the roulette info page in the duty finder. It says no such thing on the separate duties' pages though it really honestly should.

[Krotoan]

From the game's perspective, it factually is.

from that point of view, yes. From the perspective that all aspects of a game that people enjoy are equally important. No. But then again.. it is perspective.

If I run it unsynced I'll power my alt to 60 in POTD and unsync it myself, that's not the problem. I'll still have to sit through the same cutscenes I don't care about. I just ran it unsynced on a level 70 and I still had to watch the gosh darned cutscenes. They should have at least limited it to there being a first timer in the instance. There isn't? You won, it's going to be a fast roulette. There is? You knew what you were queueing for to begin with so it's all good.

THAT is a problem, I was under the impression since the description WASN'T there in the dutys entry that outside of the roulette it functioned as it always had. That needs to change. Also, this other solution you've proposed ALSO fixes the majority of the problem, perhaps that couldn't be done for the same reason the duty seems to HAVE to have the same restriction. It's a flag that cannot be flipflopped. Just ON or OFF as long as the duty is there. Either way yes, that needs to change for people who want to rerun or speedrun but do not want a 40 minute investment.

You told me I didn't know what you were thinking, so I'll throw that right back at you. I don't think they did it for money, though I can see a lot of people going there to avoid this on alts. I think they picked the path of least resistance without actually checking what resistances would arise as a result.

OK, fair enough that was a large assumption. Personally I cannot see people dropping 18-25 dollars just to skip 2 hours total. That's a lot of money for a minor problem. More than a months sub with extra retainers. Mentioning the pots as an alternative seems ludicrous.
With the addition of that last information about the duties even unsynched having to watch cutscenes at a set pace, I'll say this seems poorly implemented or at least incompletely.

[HyoMinPark]

I don't agree with your solution. I think your solution is unlikely and overly involved for such outdated content.

To be fair, the suggestion that Castrum and Praetorium be turned into solo duties is not a new suggestion; it’s something many players have been suggesting for years, and the developers have ignored it and clung to their initial design idea for the two instances, despite admitting that they were poorly designed and having never made any other dungeons like them since.