Why the hate with endgame fights?

[SilverObi]

snips

I understand where you're coming from, it's just from point of view I don't really see it as an actual "thing" I guess? There will always be people saying X content is too hard so please nerf it. And while that always carries the risk of the devs capitulating to such demands, they hold the clear rates themselves so no better than any of us if something is actually too hard for its current place in the current patch. It's just a vocal minority that will always rail when something is seemingly too hard for others (actually themselves). Just look at the occasional cry for the Lakshmi fight in 4.1

The very real fact that flies in the face of my reasoning there is the sad fate of Steps of Faith. Such a fun fight nerfed into braindead oblivion but as it was a bouncer at the gates for an entire expansion, most folks can see why the choice was made (and this might be what happens to MSQ Shinryu much later down the line).

You're totally free to make posts as you wish of course. I hope I didn't present otherwise! I enjoy lively discussion also, maybe I'm just more jaded with the community when it comes to complaints

[Bobs]

Instant death mechanics are the laziest way to make something "hard."

No one likes instant death in any game.

[miraidensetsu]

Instant death mechanics are the laziest way to make something "hard."

No one likes instant death in any game.

Ah... I hate those mechanics with all my mighty. Specially those "pray" mechanics (those who the boss selects one random player from the group to keep him hostage without attacking ang gives the party some time to destroy the bubble or the prey will die). When trying solo some boss with that, it gives the pray status to the only player out there and he can't attack the bubble. And thus, the "party" wipes. For solo players that's in fact an early enrage timer.

And yes, I have fun soloing things.

[Arrius]

Instant death mechanics are the laziest way to make something "hard."

No one likes instant death in any game.

Its by far the easiest way to make people get to pay attention and have their stuff sorted out, though.
When you make them all non-fatal, then players would ignore the mechanics and just eat the damage instead of attempting to avoid it.

[Metalwrath]

The hate has always been there.It came back in ARR when people who took raiding too seriously in other games migrated to FF14 and tried to dictate their ways on the entire FF community.
Back with Titan HM you had constant rages and people flaming each other.Warriors got so much hate at this time too.It was basically pld or gfto.
Thornmarch extreme was also very toxic.As was Steps of Faith.List goes on and on.
In heavensward i think it was maybe the most cancerous stage with alex Savage to such an extent with tank dps that SE changed the way vit worked for tanks.
Nidhogg normal and extreme was really hateful too.Still is to be honest.

Best advice i can give you is to do content with FC.

[Sorciechan]

^This. I don't think I started experiencing it in ARR until they started adding ilvls, for me. For the record, I don't hate endgame or hard fights (don't like when they are nerfed, ether), but I also don't like ppl making it harder to play a game by bringing the hate. The best fight I remember having was a storymode Garuda. The group I was in died 2 twice, but we were learning. We even discussed how Garuda was fighting and what was and wasn't working. We got her on the third try. The only other time I felt so satisfied was when I was raiding a few years back with a friendly static.

Now? I'm lucky to pass new released content without someone leaving before making it past the first boss. Or, saying someone sucks and spouting nums to prove it. Or, blaming dps for failing a fight, when the real reason was ppl dropping like flies for getting killed to mechanics (cause heaven forbid you stop dpsing to move a few inches).

[DrWho2010]

eventually tho "having fun" gives way to "i'm tired of wiping", "i want to clear" and then that leads to drama.

[SenorPatty]

eventually tho "having fun" gives way to "i'm tired of wiping", "i want to clear" and then that leads to drama.

I am this close to using this as a sig.

I think I'll wait for just one more "its just a game" line in DF...

[Nedkel]

Because some dungeons and activities are not balanced like at all and you could even find dungeons on low lvls that are hard to do and understand like the vault, the aery or the keeper of the lake (i swear to god that one).
The inconsistency in balance infuriates me as a tank (especially certain high lvl useful abilities locked, which you know they would be usefull there and here but you cant use it ending up performing badly), so the longer you go the longer it makes you thinking the next dungeon you will join is going to be somewhat "special" in killing and wiping your team for the reason you dont know yet.

The instant dead mechanics are lazy and idiotic, thats not making it difficult for the players who know how to make it, but makes it impossible to do for the ones who do it for the first time, and here is the place where the hate is. Are there really no other ways to do activities more interesting and diverse than dropping here and there field mines, which kills everybody flat in instant?
Terrible design.

[KaldeaSahaline]

The hate has always been there.It came back in ARR when people who took raiding too seriously in other games migrated to FF14 and tried to dictate their ways on the entire FF community.

Back with Titan HM you had constant rages and people flaming each other.

Humor me, is it just as possible that maybe Titan HM was the first piece of content in the game that required a modicum of reflexes/skill and as such caused a divide between skilled/unskilled players? Something completely independent of "playerbase migration woes" as it were.

Warriors got so much hate at this time too. It was basically pld or gfto.

So to be clear, you are assuming that WARs got hate back in early ARR because players who "take games too seriously" migrated into FF14 from other games? Not for ANY other reason? None at all?

Thornmarch extreme was also very toxic.As was Steps of Faith.List goes on and on.

Explain to me why you believe SoF and Thornmarch EX were "very toxic". Would you agree that my analysis of Titan HM could be copy pasted to here and still be applicable?

The instant dead mechanics are lazy and idiotic, thats not making it difficult for the players who know how to make it, but makes it impossible to do for the ones who do it for the first time, and here is the place where the hate is placed at. Are there really no other ways to do activities more interesting and diverse than dropping here and there field mines, which kills everybody flat in instant?
Terrible design.

I'm a fairly skilled player. I still died to Hashmal my first time. A pillar fell and landed on me instantly killing me. It was day 1 and it was a fresh run for nearly everyone.

I was expecting telegraphs and did not get one. When I died to it, instead of whining or alt-tabbing or watching netflix, I took 20s to realize how/why I died. I have never been hit by one again. If I was to make a bet, 50%+ of the lower skilled playerbase would not ask a question if they did not understand the mechanic that killed them, nor would they place any effort into realizing why they died.

Now that said, the alternative would be a pillar simply does x% of HP damage. That would mean that people would ignore it and just assume healers will cover it, and because there are nearly no consequences for failing the mechanic, the lowerskilled playerbase would not analyze nor learn the mechanic.

IMO.