Open world PvP Zone

[Wintersandman]

Like Ballista

OMG another person who knows what Ballista is. An Optional open world PvP mode that had no impact on PvE players but people fail to even research it who are opposed to Open World PvP because their only taste is free for all and they have closed the doors, barred the hatches, and are hunkered down.

[uvuvwevwevweonyetenyevweugwemu]

This isn’t a “broad narrative.”.

I understand that scepticism, they are bounty/loot hunters. What you have to ask is are those games mindless bounty hunting game or competitive pvp where sportmanship still apply. The PvP i grew up with actually have meaningful relationship with PvE. No bounty/loot from hitting someone but there's 1-2 occasional bully, the pvpers keep them inline and help hunters get their bis in special pvp events. In return the hunters help us on hard world bosses to get our bis. The gear progression sort of drop everywhere. Keeping the peace is just a matter of respect between two sides and I've never had a problem with that. I've been bullied before too and a proper PvPer knows when to stop, when you're dead you're dead, they won't go chasing you around 2nd time for no reason at all.

I'm actually fine without any PvE objectives in a pvp map, I'm not looking for prey. My own experience tells me PvE has more horrible people who won't stop at nothing to get their loot. One of my statics admin was mauled literally in real life for kicking bad seeds out of the group, this is true story. I'm not talking about 8-man statics, it was a 30-man world boss hunting group so there's certain rules for coordinations. That's obviously a law issue but the person quit that game afterwards and I've stopped taking any kind of statics or pve endgame since.

[Zojha]

You also had a choice in WoW, they had RP and PvE servers.

You could still get flagged PvP by accident if you buffed, healed or resurrected a player that had the tag on (AoE heals included). Then there were also Open World areas that automatically flagged you if you entered them (I think even flying over them by accident counted, but I'm not sure anymore) and then of course you regularly had PvP flagged people running into your mobs, onto your corpses (For those not in the know: You had to click on a corpse to loot it) and around you in order to try and get you PvP flagged via accidental misclick or AoE. Especially high level Tauren with their Kodos loved that strategy, since they had the most coverage.
Once flagged, you had to wait 5 minutes for the flag to vanish, which was the most annoying bit of it all. So even if you killed the dude, sticking around just made you prone to a gank while you're busy with another mob, you had to walk away and wait before continuing your farm.

It was a royal pain to avoid PvP on PvE servers at times. If you had a guild, it was usually easier to just kill the troublemakers and spawncamp them until they got bored and learned their lesson.

[Wintersandman]

You could still get flagged PvP by accident if you buffed, healed or resurrected a player that had the tag on (AoE heals included). Then there were also Open World areas that automatically flagged you if you entered them (I think even flying over them by accident counted, but I'm not sure anymore) and then of course you regularly had PvP flagged people running into your mobs, onto your corpses (For those not in the know: You had to click on a corpse to loot it) and around you in order to try and get you PvP flagged via accidental misclick or AoE.

AoE heals only affected party members. You could see if someone was flagged so it was a choice to buff, heal, or res them. Up through WotLK the only zone with PvP was Wintergrasp which was released during WotLK and you didn't need to go there for any PvE objectives. If you are misclicking I have no sympathy for you as you should know what you are targeting. In regards to looting you could turn on Auto-Loot and the corpse looting would be alleviated. Is it cumbersome yes but there were ways around it if it bugged people that much.

[Zojha]

Is it cumbersome yes [...]

That's the point I was making. As Frost Mage, you had to purposely forego you natural defensive tool, Frost Nova, to not get tagged. Priests similarly had to be careful with Psychic Scream in their daily farm activities. Combat rogues had to make sure not to use Blade Flurry etc etc. Panning your camera to find a good angle the guy wasn't blocking was also a common necessity. AoE farming in a group was cumbersome, as you easily triggered a tagging chain reaction. And if he wanted to, a Rogue could simply jump into the last tick of your ground AoE without you realizing he's even there and get you tagged that way. You had to go out of your way to avoid PvP even on a PvE realm is the point.

Of course that bugged people that much. Not having to go out of your way and doing cumbersome workarounds to avoid it was the reason people picked a PvE realm in the first place after all. That's what PvP realms were for - Those also had cumbersome workarounds to avoid PvP, playing Rogue being one of them.

And that holds a valuable lesson to learn from when making any "optional" PvP zone or tagging system - Don't allow interaction between tagged and non-tagged people. AoEs of non-tagged people should simply ignore tagged people, single target abilities and autoattacks trigger a warning message along the lines of:"You need to turn on the flag to do that".

[Wintersandman]

And that holds a valuable lesson to learn from when making any "optional" PvP zone or tagging system - Don't allow interaction between tagged and non-tagged people. AoEs of non-tagged people should simply ignore tagged people, single target abilities and autoattacks trigger a warning message along the lines of:"You need to turn on the flag to do that".

FFXIV already has this in place. You can't attack Leve Quest targets so they already have the logic.

Panning your camera to find a good angle the guy wasn't blocking was also a common necessity. .

Tab targeting... I am sure you have used it before.

As Frost Mage, you had to purposely forego you natural defensive tool, Frost Nova, to not get tagged. Priests similarly had to be careful with Psychic Scream in their daily farm activities. Combat rogues had to make sure not to use Blade Flurry etc etc.

I am sorry but having played both classes you didn't *NEED* those tools and wouldn't hinder you much. I played Priest, Mage, and Rogue and I never had an issue with accidentally getting flagged.

AoE farming in a group was cumbersome, as you easily triggered a tagging chain reaction.

Hopefully if you were in a group you could take out one straggler jumping in the fray.

[Zojha]

FFXIV already has this in place. You can't attack Leve Quest targets so they already have the logic.

We have no open world PvP zone yet, so we do not have anything in place regarding open world PvP either. It's obvious that it's mechanically possible, what I was stating was that it's important to actually 'do' it.
More:"Arguing for the sake of arguing" at eleven. But without me - If you feel the need to dissect a post sentence by sentence instead of replying in a coherent post, you quite apparently are just desperate to be right about "something" for a change.

Have it your way, I'll go mine. That's not worth my time, only a rhyme.

[Adeacia]

Sounds a bit selfish, imo. "Oh ok, I'm all for it, get this thing as long as it's worthless (100% fun, right? you should be happy, pvp players). Maybe I'll join you casually when I'm bored for fun".

Which means not even glamour that could interest pve players, I guess?..

Thx there are already mounts, the cheerleader pet, some songs, some titles, and even some pve gears (now glamour) to get with the current system.

Or maybe I misunderstood what you meant by "as long as there is nothing else there that makes people who are not interested in pvp go there".

PVP only rewards are fine. I mean like don't give anyone who isn't interested in doing pvp, a reason to go into the pvp zone. No monsters or gathering nodes for example. There can be pvp events in the zone that give rewards for kills and such. Rewards you can't get any other way.

The point being, you go there to pvp, and no other reason.

[Wintersandman]

But without me - If you feel the need to dissect a post sentence by sentence instead of replying in a coherent post, you quite apparently are just desperate to be right about "something" for a change.

Actually it was more to illustrate that you had a choice. You made it sound like this horrible inconvenience and really it was all a choice and in reality every class that you mentioned were the strongest in a PvP setting especially against that sneaky rogue. A frost mage could kite a rogue for days. A priest using Psychic Scream would have seen the rogue and could have mind flayed him before he ever came back. You could have overcome every situation but from your post you made a clear choice to not adapt.

[Fannah]

But a node could have only some specific items that could make you craft pure glamour items, it would then be the same than those PvP only rewards giving glamours directly for pvp points as the end of it would be getting a glamour item. I don't see what would be wrong about that.

What's wrong with monsters if they don't give exp, for exemple, but would drop specific items to craft glamour only items? Or killing a monster would make another one pop (as ended fates makes another one pop) and there are low chances one rare fate spawn who would also drop an item for glamour only, or a pet/songs etc. I don't see the difference with giving PvP points directly in exchange for such kind of rewards.

Several people came for pvp to get glamour, you don't have to choose to people the reason why they went in PvP (or maybe you know what was in the mind of some of my guildmates who went in the pvp only for the glamour stuff/titles/achievements and mounts. They still did their best to play well there, just in case).

Knowing PvP never has been a way to get top HL gears, nor anything which matter story wise, I'm wondering what you're actually afraid to see there. I only understand if it's like a node that would provide crafting items for pve matters only.