Open world PvP Zone

[Kisagami]

An open world PvP zone with nothing mandatory is not a problem in itself. How can you argue about something asked to be just in one zone (not the overall game) no one has to go in with no meaningful rewards other than glamour?

PS : I'm not for overall open world pvp and I agree there is always people enjoying the toxic way of playing there. But I don't get you can be against just a small zone with nothing asking you to go in other than having a glamour/title (or else) showing you've been successful there.

If you go back in the last 21 pages of this thread, they went from “give us a <kind of> unpopulated PVE zone” (thus meaning new players would still have to do those quests there once to complete the game), to “just an opt-in area” to “an instance” to an area with fates and crafting zones... so yeah... there’s no consistency as to what it is. I’ve given examples I support - and have contributed to this thread plenty. But mainly they keep arguing it won’t affect PVE players at all to this current place, while disregarding my counter arguments.

[Fannah]

Yea, it's complicated when the topic changes so much as it's a discussed idea overall as it's not existing. I read the 1rst pages and can't remember we would have real PvE quests, but nevermind, I agree from beginning it has to not have PvE NPC giving quests in unsafe areas. Especially that it's not the spirit if FF at all.

And about those thinking there will be nothing toxic... welcome to the real world. It's not just "Kisagami's experience" nor only mine. There always will be some people to abuse a system when they technically can do it. It doesn't have to be a majority, but even a group of just 4 people, even just one player good at dueling who wanna have fun this way can be highly toxic.

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

The ideas changed in an effort to try and compromise. But it seems like there's no compromise at all unless people who wouldn't even be interested in going into a PvP zone can ensure it's a completely dead on arrival zone that ONLY allows for what it's intended, is SO separated and walled off from anything else it might as well be on the moon, and nothing more. At all. Ever. And all this based on fear and past experience in other games.

What was it someone said before? "I don't like this, so no one should have it."

[RiyahArp]

I feel like people are kind of taking the prey comment too hard.

When I wrote that, it was in a game design sense. In open world pvp, one of the biggest problems is actually getting people to try it. Players are surprisingly risk averse, even when loss is trivial; you can PvP in EVE without losing much of anything due to insurance and the relative cheapness of low level ships, which are viable in their roles through the whole game. But the shock of being killed unfairly is pretty harsh for a lot of people, and thats why most people in EVE never leave concord space and have to be forced to pvp through Wardecs, despite having some of the best player-driven resources in the game for mentorship and conflict.

So you need incentives to get people to overcome that sense of risk, and its pretty decent risk in a psychic sense. There's already a player-driven "predator" model which gets rid of the risk by, well, blobbing and ganking; that is, using advantage in numbers to reduce risk. The dev stuff that they do is a "prey" model, in which it helps people who don't blob and gank enjoy the mode. I don't mean every pvp player in the open world is a villain or a rabbit, but you kind of need prey measures to counteract predator stuff. If its just pure pvp, the only response is to get more numbers than people or run.

The context I wrote it was mostly about having the wolf's den model of an open pvp zone, just with no restrictions. I don't mean we'd get forced pve to draw pvers in as unwilling targets. Though if anything many pvers became pvpers in eve because they risked going into lowsec to get precious ores to ferry back to sell.

The ideas changed in an effort to try and compromise. But it seems like there's no compromise at all unless people who wouldn't even be interested in going into a PvP zone can ensure it's a completely dead on arrival zone that ONLY allows for what it's intended, is SO separated and walled off from anything else it might as well be on the moon, and nothing more. At all. Ever. And all this based on fear and past experience in other games.

What was it someone said before? "I don't like this, so no one should have it."

im perfectly ok if they have it. I just dont want it to wind up unpopulated. Im not saying this to argue against it, but its nice if we get some ideas out first so we can decide what kind of open world pvp we want, and understand the dangers of that mode.

[Wyvernheart]

Kisagami is just a guy who doesnt want others to have their fun. We have all put out ideas that void his concerns yet in the end he just wants to hate on anyone different. These zones wouldnt even be connected. To go there you most pick the zone like in crowded server times when they make zone 1 and zone 2 and so on. Yet he would somehow accidently zone there to be mugged by people when you cant even get loot off a player. Just a nay sayer i say.

[Bahati]

I would at least try an open world PVP area but knowing our player base.... I can already see the crying about unfairness. Halone forbid there be any reward or minion for playing in the open world PVP zone. People can't handle having to grin and bear it to get items they like or they have to live without it.

[Wyvernheart]

Sad thing is, it isn't about the items most of the time. We just want this thing, each for our own reasons. We do not seek to disturb others, but to have a place that we can go to play this mmo how we wish to. We can have mobs and nodes and pvp fates to! Make this area totally separate from the regular server and make it a cross world. This way you have to que into the cross-world pvp zone. Boom. No problems.

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

We do not seek to disturb others

THIS. So much this.

Yes, there's potential for misuse, but you could say the same thing about almost any features players asked for and wanted in game. In the end, it's really about being a mature adult and a good sport. At its most simplistic, I don't want to gank anyone because I don't want to BE ganked. Golden rule. Easy as that.

[Kisagami]

Look, I’m okay with a zone being created but there needs to be limits. If it was a completely instanced area, away from questing and crafting, I’d be all for it. I just don’t want it to be a hinderance to finish my game, and I don’t want it to be a completely insane free-for-all area where people are constantly gamked. I like our current PVP systems where everyone has a fair chance with fair teams. Nobody is “ganked” because they have a full team behind them and it is entirely fair.

Games that got open PVP right: Tera (Corsairs Stronghold), Guild Wars 2 (completely instanced - I don’t need to go there to finish end game content.)

Give us one of those and we’ll be golden. However, you also need to account for the fact: do we even have enough PVPers to keep things viable without requiring “prey.” Perfectly valid point that makes my head scream “no.” At the end of the day, Squeenix isn’t going to do anything unless they feel it’ll be a good investment of their time to keep the playerbase happy. Yet by all accounts, despite the new PVP mode, queue times can be longer than dungeon queues at times.

[Wyvernheart]

Nope, it has to have content that makes you move around or camp places. Struggle points of interest and what have you. One idea i have is the Empirers efferts to control the smaller city-states between it and the main nations. They could allow is to pick sides like GC. This could bring pvp fates.