Tank dps harrasment

[ElHeggunte]

Wrong on many levels. That data is private within the party.

It isn't private though. Anything that gets written to the battle log can be seen by anyone else around you, whether they're in your group or not (and did you know that everything printed to the logs is also saved locally on each machine's HDD?):

Example 1: Say we're in a 24-man raid together, but you're in Group A and I'm in Group B. I could still look at my battle log and see everything you do. As in, I can use my eyeballs and don't require a parser to see things like what buffs you used, what attacks you performed, how much damage they did, whether or not they crit, etc. That's how most parsers work in the first place: by reading the battle log and then displaying the information in a way that's easier to understand (but could still be done by hand if you had pen, paper, and too much free time).

Example 2: Let's say you're out in the world fighting a Hunt mob. I happen to walk by your group on my way to do something unrelated. Guess what? I could still look at my battle log and see everything that you're doing even though I'm not in your party or engaged with the same mob.

If you're grouped with other people or even remotely close enough to them that your information gets printed to their log, your information is not private and they don't require your permission to upload it or do whatever else they want with it.

Because that data was uploaded without my consent, doesn't make it free to all.

Whether or not you want them to upload it is irrelevant because you don't get to claim sole ownership over something that was available to the public the moment it got written to everyone else's battle log.

[Misurugi]

Did you just copy your post over from the other thread? Lol

Yeah.. i need to make a few edits but more or less the same thing is said... ppl will be close minded. Knowing is half the battle for this. Know the class know what you can do. And do what you feel comfortable doing. If you feel you can do more... Great. Just... yeah.. It's your account. Play for fun.

[Awha]

Sad thing is I recall the pvp forums having fewer threads regarding toxic behavior, yet SE got involved. Prob rose tinted goggles.

[MeridaQ]

Sad thing is I recall the pvp forums having fewer threads regarding toxic behavior, yet SE got involved. Prob rose tinted goggles.

Are you asking for SE to change all dungeon and PF chat to the same communication systems as Pvp?

My guess is the reason they aren’t doing anything is because it isn’t as large of a problem people as people think it is.

[Lewtskie]

Sorry if this post sounds weird as well but re-reading this thread from start to finish made me feel like I just read a novel where pyrrhic victories and downer endings come abundant.

No, you about have the right of it. The PUG world is a business world, almost all formality with no familiarity. It was different back in older MMOs, since communities were like small towns; but now it's like big cities - cold, hard, and difficult to get yourself going unless you were pretty much raised there. You're just another face in a see of hundreds or thousands. Most won't ever remember your name.

You don't need a FC, even they can be cold; all about just having numbers. It's great just having a handful of folk who you get to know and enjoy being around, may end up starting your own FC together, which is nice. But don't let that stop you from looking. Even in a big FC you can find good folk who've found themselves there too.

[Awha]

Are you asking for SE to change all dungeon and PF chat to the same communication systems as Pvp?

My guess is the reason they aren’t doing anything is because it isn’t as large of a problem people as people think it is.

Not even sure SE can do much of anything expect maybe request FFlogs to make their site opt in instead of out or make it so the data is personal. Though SE is much smarter then I, pretty sure they can come up with something, lawl that chat ban did work wonders. ensive:

Kicker is people on the pvp forums said the same thing that it is not as wide spread as people made it out to be. Though many parallels can be drawn.

Memes aside people said the pvp community was toxic as fuck, and toxic behavior in pve is mostly happens in a vacuum. Though rip with the amount of threads and length of said threads equates to a vacuum. Though my honest guess is due the sample size of the pvp community at the time the number of reports compared to active players that pvp was properly fairly large. Given more people pve, the reports numbers would have to be huge for their metrics to show a problem. Since I had doubt those that make such decisions read each report more like just got an overview of negative reports tied to active players. So for a purely ratio point of view yeah toxic behavior in pve is not much of an issue, but I would love to see the data in number form since idk for some odd reason I feel as if the toxic behavior in pve has a tad more reports. Now I know most will say well duh more people pve thus larger number of reports will be made. That is why going based off the overall data is best, that would only be fair if both elements had similar player base.

Also given the smaller sample size you will more likely to run into the toxic handful in pvp, and most the time said toxic people were only pricks if they were losing. So if you happened to know what you were doing they were as kind as could be. So if a player is more likely to run into a player that is toxic you might be more inclined to report them. While in pve most of the time you can avoid the toxic people.

Still none of this means the harassment in pve is any less an issue. Though clearly most people do not see it that way. What makes harassment an issue is frequency for people I guess, which is sad.

[Paladinleeds]

Welp

What I will say is, try to find a smaller more cozy FC. There's plenty big ones about that just care about the numbers because the more members they recruit and have in the FC doing stuff, the more FC points you'll get (which are then used to purchase things). Often times, the bigger FCs are very much about the numbers (I was an officer for one of those sorts of FCs, had ~200 members in it). Not all, but most. Smaller FCs (such as Fallen Arcadia on Odin), are very much like a family who will support you through all the things. One thing I will say is, while PUGs are very much business-like, don't be afraid to try and strike up some conversation. Most times, it'll go down well (some small talk like complementing someone's glamour can go a long way to making the run feel less business-like). You're on Sarg so I can't help, but hang in there.

[MeridaQ]

snip

I gave you a like because of your location information. xD

But yeah I would suggest joining an FC or getting a group of friends together for learning and clearing content. Not only is it typically a more supportive environment, but when working together as a group of friends/FC members those accomplishments create great bonds and understanding that helps tackle content in the future. I often set up groups for friends and FC members to teach new and old content. (If you were in my data center I would ask for you to come along) Once you have learned the content you are able to increase your DPS drastically something that is overlooked a bit in this whole thread. Which just means going with a group of people you know first is a great way to do content. Laughing and having fun learning the hard content is one of the best experiences I have in the game.

I think a big reason there has a "cold feel" is that people when learning/farming content think about themselves first, which is normal and nothing to be ashamed about. If you only have an hour to do something and someone is under performing they feel strained. (Such as: afking, not using aoes, not knowing mechanics etc) I personally don't mind if people are learning or not doing "good" DPS, if we have a whole lot of mobs I would just ask please use AOE's. (I have been yelled at for that when I say, "Hey can you please use AOE attacks on a bunch of mobs." I have also had people ask questions and learn). People want to get things done in the schedule they set for themselves and sometimes that doesn't line up with everyone else in the dungeon. Everything is based on perspective, if there is harassment report it. If there isn't keep doing you. xD Good luck with your learning parties I hope you have a great time making new friends.

[Miste]

So strangely enough your post is attempting to silence those that have gone through such abuse, so you are sort of doing what you claim you dislike. So maybe my claim of your being disingenuous was a little on point.

No I am not. No where have I said to anyone that it is "silly" that they have posted their experience or opinion just because I don't agree with it nor have I told anyone they are undermining people just for posting their opinions and experiences.

I am also not labeling anyone "disingenuous" for just posting their experiences and opinions either which I guess you have clarified the definition you are using. You are accusing me of pretending? So in other words you are claiming I am lying in order to push my own opinion. Well, you're wrong. I have not lied about my experience so I am not pretending anything.

I mean instead of using fancy words that have multiple meanings why not instead just plainly say what you want to say? If you want to call me a liar then call me a liar. I mean I guess it adds to the list: silly, undermining, disingenuous/lying.....got any more? All because I shared what personally happened in my 4 years of playing this game which led me to the opinion I hold about the frequency of parser harassment?

All of these things seem like attempts to shame me into changing my opinion or to make me stop posting my opinion, which I already mentioned this in a previous post. To me that seems like you are trying to silence my opinion because you don't like it.

I mean honestly how does me saying "in my experience parser harassment doesn't seem to happen frequently" silence those who have gone through such abuse? I never said that the abuse never happens. THAT would be trying to silence them by pretending it never happens, but I have not once said such a thing. I have never claimed that it never happens; all I said, multiple times now, is that I doubt the "frequency" of it due to my own personal experiences. This does not silence anyone. It amazes me how ridiculous this has gotten. Ever since my first post that you responded to I have been talking about frequency so don't try to claim I was talking about something else to artificially flip the argument in your favour. I have clarified I have always been talking about frequency.

So you continue to label me all these things and you obviously don't like my opinion and my experience and you either want me to change my opinion or stop posting my opinion, it has to be one or the other. If it isn't one of those reasons then why do you insist on replying to me even though I told you you are arguing with a brick wall who won't listen to you and you have zero chance to change my mind on this? If I am wrong then tell me what is your true goal here? You say you are "fine" with my experience, but I honestly don't believe you. How can you be fine with it and in the same breath accuse me of "pretending"?

So what now? Got any new labels or accusations to throw at me? Keep them coming, it is highly entertaining.

PS. In my 4 years of playing this game as a very active player in all types of content, in statics, in PF pugs, in DF, I have not seen a single instance of a player being harassed with a parser. In my opinion this casts doubt on how frequently parser harassment occurs. This makes me believe that there isn't much else to be done to avoid said harassment since removing harassment 100% is a pipe dream. If harassment of any kind happens you use the tools available to you, you blacklist, you report to a GM, and you move on and not associate with those players. We should advocate people be nice to each other of course, but that doesn't mean everyone is going to listen.

[Taika]

This thread taught me when you're pugging, its all business first. Via a third party global parsing website of all things. I'd like to be parsed for sure. But I'd like to be parsed by the right people. Genuine people. People who won't sugarcoat but also won't shut you out from the start. That's pug business all right. I'd like to be parsed by people you know and want you to succeed at things, just as you want them too. Have a laugh at it too.

Pugs can't do that. And that's fine. But its a bit cold.

Based on my own pugging experiences, what you're describing here isn't an accurate description of pug raiding. I highly doubt it's a standard thing to check anyone's performance rating unless a person is joining extremely demanding content (my example from a while ago with OS4) or a group that specifically requires high performance. There are tons of casual progression groups available and for a big majority of even current raid content DPS simply doesn't matter much for the clear so no one cares. If you read the thread carefully, you notice people who are writing the horror stories aren't even basing them on their personal real experiences but something "they've heard in game from friends". I've been pugging current raids and extremes a lot and I have never seen a person get treated badly for their parse or FFlogs, and I've never seen anyone blindly excluded from a group. There are many other pug raiders who have said the same in this thread. I'm not saying PF is all butterflies and sunshine, and of course there are people with silly standards and bad behaviour out there, but from my experience those are more an exception than the norm.