Tank dps harrasment

[BillyKaplan]

people dont have to play with bad players and we have no obligation to teach them i play FF for an hour a night im not wasting my sub on someone that has hours to play in a rhetorical manner kick them first differences in playstyle and even if your parsing just dont call them out just boot

You don't know that person's circumstances. You're making assumptions based on nothing. For all you know, that person can have even less time to play than you do and they just got kicked out of the content because of someone who's using something the game doesn't even officially allow

[HazyAssaulter]

I honestly believe that anyone will become as good as they want to be. Call me a hopeless optimist if you will.

And yes, this even applies to the current best player on the server. On the data center. In the game. Everybody always has room to improve, and will only be as proficient as they want to be at the game.

This is the mentality I share when it comes to raiding. Success is everyone's responsibility and success is dependent on DPS. Therefore, DPS is everyone's responsibility. No one is exempt, not tanks and not healers. If you try to push that responsibility off on someone else because you don't care to improve you don't belong in high end content.

[jameseoakes]

Where is this "trend to abuse the data"? What do you mean by that? I have done a lot of Savage and extreme pugging in SB, and I have only once in that entire time seen a person being excluded from a group because of their numbers. It was OS4 first clear party, the person was a DD, and the group could not have beaten the fight with that person. Cases like this are not "abuse", they are using objective data to make informed decisions - in this case one that prevented one person from ruining the group. Having high DPS farm groups where low rank players aren't allowed also isn't abuse - it's about being open about your expectations and allowing similar minded and skilled people to play together at their own level.

Sure the OP has told how they were kicked from a DF dungeon because of DPS, but I'm pretty sure that doesn't count as a "trend" either, since everyone here seems to 100% agree with it being completely ridiculous.

Edit: As far as I know, I think you're allowed to hide your own data from FFlogs too. I understand it's not the same than asking your permission to show it in the first place, but at least it's there.

I might be exaggerating the trend to myself but I have seen more cases than I'd like to of people looking up other players from the forums and calling them out on there performance. I can't say using it to check on people sits well with me, it might makes sense at very high level play but I'd be very worried if that trickles down in to the midcore

[Taika]

I might be exaggerating the trend to myself but I have seen more cases than I'd like to of people looking up other players from the forums and calling them out on there performance.

Can you post some links if there truly are that many cases? I saw one in this thread, but that was a person who called for others to look their logs, so doesn't really count as such. I also remember another recent case of a person talking about how they're doing really well in their job without the parser, to which someone replied with their logs pointing out the opposite, but I don't remember ever seeing people bringing up other players' numbers in a situation in which the numbers wouldn't be relevant to the discussion (like in these two examples).

[CaTi]

people dont have to play with bad players and we have no obligation to teach them i play FF for an hour a night im not wasting my sub on someone that has hours to play in a rhetorical manner kick them first differences in playstyle and even if your parsing just dont call them out just boot

Yes because kicking somebody so you don't have to "waste your sub" absolutely doesn't waste that person's time...

[HoodRat]

Can you post some links if there truly are that many cases? I saw one in this thread, but that was a person who called for others to look their logs, so doesn't really count as such. I also remember another recent case of a person talking about how they're doing really well in their job without the parser, to which someone replied with their logs pointing out the opposite, but I don't remember ever seeing people bringing up other players' numbers in a situation in which the numbers wouldn't be relevant to the discussion (like in these two examples).

I've seen it a couple times, but it was always a reaction to someone making an outrageous statement about a class they clearly had no idea how to play. Something like:
Player A: pld is the worst tank ever because they have a shield
Player B: you've only cleared 01s and have all gray parses, you clearly don't know how to play pld
Player A: omg you filthy elitist I know how to play perfectly just because I'm not 99th percentile doesn't mean I don't know what I'm talking about
Player C: Healers can't dps during downtime because they have to stop healing to dps

[HyoMinPark]

I wish more people understood this like you. FFLogs provides nothing but numbers with no context. It tells you absolutely nothing about the player. And from what I've seen it doesn't even track all content in the game? So that's an even less useful picture.

This is false—FFLogs can track uploaded data down to the GCD. It shows what casts each party member made, what buffs were used, what spells, what healing was done, etc.; it even has a Replay function that plays back the entire fight for you to analyze. It show deaths, what the killing blow was, how much damage the person took, any and all debuffs people had. It shows everything. With regards to the content it tracks, the only logs that matter are Savage and Ultimate logs. Who cares about parses from dungeons or even the 24-man? No one; raiders recruiting for statics or looking for statics only care about Savage/Ultimate parses. I don’t even think they care much about Ex trials.

EDIT: With regards to the percentiles and numbers, people cannot just look at the gray/green/blue/purple/orange number and take it for surface value. You have to look deeper. I have some really ugly logs on FFLogs: a lot where I have died due to my own mistakes (looking at you, V3S reapers) and a lot where I have died to other mistakes, like lack of healing or being clipped (my V3S clear had 3 deaths, two of which I was clipped by another person’s Folio—it was 9th percentile and definitely not my finest moment). You have to look at comp—a BRD or MCH with a DRG is going to automatically have higher numbers against a BRD or MCH that doesn’t have a DRG. rDPS is going to be higher if you’re running with multiple jobs that buff everyone (like NIN’s TA, DRG’s Litany) compared to if you’re running with a comp that has no buffs/synergy. You can look at some of the oranges and dig deeper to see if the person was catered to for the run: if you look at a parse and see that the MNK got 12 Balances, 5 Spears, and 7 Arrows, while the rest of the group only received AOE/Expanded cards, it’s pretty obvious that MNK was being padded that run.

In other words, you cannot take the numbers at surface value—you have to look deeper into them. Why were the numbers grey? Did the person die a lot? Were they not being healed? Did they stay in tank stance spamming their enmity combo, or were they actually stance-dancing while spamming DPS combos? You have to dig deeper. And that’s what FFLogs is there for: deeper analysis so that people can improve.

[Dualgunner]

people dont have to play with bad players and we have no obligation to teach them i play FF for an hour a night im not wasting my sub on someone that has hours to play in a rhetorical manner kick them first differences in playstyle and even if your parsing just dont call them out just boot

I never said anybody has to play with anybody. I was responding to someone asking me if I believe there is a ceiling to player ability.

[akaneakki]

Our community has hit such a low, at this point I just turn off party chat in group content. Its really sad given how friendly and positive people were like during ARR.

When I'm honest, I think that as friendly. Honestly if I don't tell a player to get better, they will eventually meet them. I'm not going to let some player stay bad just to be ''kind'' to him or her, I tell them to get better and if they do improve I'm happy about it. But sorry to say, why should I play better just a player can slack way harder than the rest?

[Sarteck]

I hate to break it to you, but as you are in a party with them that they created it is absolutely their business to know what your skill level is.

Hate to break it to you, but:

1) At the very least, you'll have to agree that if they are NOT in my party, then they have no business, which is what that site is for; and

2) No, it's NOT their business, tyvm. Especially random data plucked from who-knows-what situations.

Either way, you're wrong.