Tank dps harrasment

[MeridaQ]

Snip
Some people cannot reach the drive of raiders, and it\\'s unfair to expect them to. If I PUG casual content and pull teammates that are highly geared and extremely effective, I consider that a bonus, not the baseline.

Yeah I have the same mindset sure I might mumble if a dungeon is taking a long time, but I am not going to criticize anyone for it. If it’s high end content I will suggest a few things, but never call someone bad. The only time I give suggestions in normal content is when someone is new or I see something really off. Like when I was in Qarn fighting the golem boss and the 60 synched blm was just casting thunder II over and over again. I asked why they said oh sorry and we moved on.

[Arkturius]

Yeah I have the same mindset sure I might mumble if a dungeon is taking a long time, but I am not going to criticize anyone for it. If it’s high end content I will suggest a few things, but never call someone bad. The only time I give suggestions in normal content is when someone is new or I see something really off. Like when I was in Qarn fighting the golem boss and the 60 synched blm was just casting thunder II over and over again. I asked why they said oh sorry and we moved on.

pretty sure everyone forgot that the op states they farm EX content but debuff tank DF etc? i literally do 50 roulette on my crap warrior with no job skills unlocked for clusters and have had 0 complaints why? i do dps

[Xerek]

pretty sure everyone forgot that the op states they farm EX content but debuff tank DF etc? i literally do 50 roulette on my crap warrior with no job skills unlocked for clusters and have had 0 complaints why? i do dps

Or, perhaps...why? You hold aggro. Honestly, in casual content I won't complain about a tank unless they struggle to hold aggro.

[Avatre]

Honestly, in casual content I won't complain about a tank unless they struggle to hold aggro.

Which is really the only time something needs to be done, whether it be talking to them to help them fix it, or if the problem persists, kicking them(which I honestly don't do, since almost all the time everyone is so over geared that we are fine doing it anyways with everyone tanking)

[InfiniDragon]

I'm a full-on aggressive "Grit is a cooldown" non-tank stance every chance I get tank, and even I think harassing someone that isn't tanking out of stance is unacceptable.

Learning to tank out of stance is vital to more difficult raids, and is absolutely something a tank should strive to learn at higher level...when they're ready to do so. It doesn't help anyone if someone who's still learning tries to DPS all the things but doesn't know how to mitigate and gets killed, you can't DPS if you're dead.

If a tank says they're more comfortable in tank stance and they do all the other aspects of their job correctly (mitigate properly, do the correct rotation, threat, etc.), that's absolutely fine.

[Taika]

First of all, it's simply ridiculous to demand high DPS performance from any job in DF content such as dungeons or hunts. As long as everyone is trying to actively contribute, it should be enough, even though their playing isn't optional.

However, when we talk about PF and raid finder content, the expectations are higher, since the content itself requires certain level of optimisation. In Ultimate, Savage and extremes, you should already be familiar with your job and know how to use it in a way that's the most beneficial to your party. Most of all you should aim for being as useful to your party as possible. If you know that you could tank the content (with an enrage!) in DPS stance and improve your party's DPS like that but you refuse to do it, making it harder for your group than it should be, it's understandable if your group doesn't want you with them.

Also, party finder groups are free to set their own entry requirements as they wish, no matter how ridiculous they are. And, at the same time, it doesn't make much sense for people to join a group where everyone else has a completely different mentality towards performance and optimisation. If you're excluded from a group because everyone else there is ranking significantly higher than you - especially for reasons such as refusing to play your job according to the current standard - chances are your mentality is quite different from theirs.

Lastly, there's nothing in the ToS against checking players' logs and including or excluding them from groups because of that. It's done all the time, even as written in party finder descriptions, and there is nothing that has been or will be done against it, since checking someone's logs doesn't even mean you're using a parser. All it means is you're browsing a website. That's like saying you're reporting people for saying they've checked your Lodestone profile. (Of course harassment based on someone's logs is and should be a reportable offense, but simply pointing out that your public records for a particular fight are too low for a group's requirements is not harassment.)

[jameseoakes]

Lastly, there's nothing in the ToS against checking players' logs and including or excluding them from groups because of that. It's done all the time, even as written in party finder descriptions, and there is nothing that has or will be done against it, since checking someone's logs doesn't even mean you're using a parser. All it means is you're browsing a website. That's like saying you're reporting people for saying they've checked your Lodestone profile. (Of course harassment based on someone's logs is and should be a reportable offense, but simply pointing out that your public records for a particular fight are too low for a group's requirements is not harassment.)

Aren't those logs being made using data that should not be obtainable without people breaking the ToS. I'm starting to wonder if the harassment from people abusing FFlogs maybe something FFLogs or SE themselves will need to look into.

[Avatre]

Aren't those logs being made using data that should not be obtainable without people breaking the ToS. I'm starting to wonder if the harassment from people abusing FFlogs maybe something FFLogs or SE themselves will need to look into.

It's more of a grey area than anything else. They don't care if you use it, as long as there is zero harassment going on because of it. BUT, that doesn't exactly mean you can use it openly as there are some people that even the mentioning of a parser will send them reporting to the GMs(I remember seeing a post somewhere on the forums where someone stated they did that if someone said they use a parser).

[Oscura]

Aren't those logs being made using data that should not be obtainable without people breaking the ToS. I'm starting to wonder if the harassment from people abusing FFlogs maybe something FFLogs or SE themselves will need to look into.

Everything from the parsers and FFlogs is being pulled directly from the battle log in game. The one you can read. It just makes it even easier to read.

[Taika]

Aren't those logs being made using data that should not be obtainable without people breaking the ToS. I'm starting to wonder if the harassment from people abusing FFlogs maybe something FFLogs or SE themselves will need to look into.

They're based on parsing which is against ToS, yes (although the developers openly turn a blind eye to it).
(Edit: I don't know if it would be possible to have a similar site but upgrade direct game log data instead of taking it through a parser. But yeah, as already pointed out, the parser basically just reads your game battle log.) But having your logs up there does not mean you have been parsing, it just means someone in your group has. During the discussion in the latest parser thread, I checked there were over 110 000 public group parses just for OS1, so there are almost 900 000 player parses just for that fight (of course there are generally multiple parses for one player). If SE was to ban all the people who they'd find there, well, you can imagine what that would do to the playerbase (in fact, they would ban you).

You really need to separate harassment from stating numbers though, those are two very different things.