Tank dps harrasment

[KaivaC]

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You know as well as many of us that a GM will definitely not take action in that scenario due to 'differing playstyles'.

[Awha]

You know as well as many of us that a GM will definitely not take action in that scenario due to 'differing playstyles'.

Nevertheless, people tend to take kicks personal, and to be frank most the time it just boils down to as you said differing play styles.

[KaivaC]

Nevertheless, people tend to take kicks personal, and to be frank most the time it just boils down to as you said differing play styles.

I haven't been vote-kicked in...hmm...I think since my trial period when I first started early last year, but yes, I do take kicks personally, especially over what I view as the most trivial of things.

[Awha]

. . . yes, I do take kicks personally, especially over what I view as the most trivial of things.

For the kick to pass it must not have been trivial for those that clicked yes. Pass or fail the majority dictate the flow of the group not a single person. I think it is selfish to expect a group of players to put up with something because the minority feels it is wrong and unfair to remove a person for differing playstyles.

While I assume you did not mean anything but it I do find it funny that I never mentioned you personally but you felt the need to open up with how you have not been kicked since you started. Not getting vote kicked is easy. I mean giving players a reason to kick is the hard part. I mean I have not played the game for a couple of weeks, but if I recall votes open up at the 15 min mark right.

[Zojha]

Pass or fail the majority dictate the flow of the group not a single person.

In regards to kicks, that is incorrect. Majority means more than 50% of a given population. In a group of 4, a majority thus means 3 people, as 2/4 is exactly 50% and thus neither majority nor minority. The vote however only needs 2 to pass.

Therefore, kicks may be but aren't necessarily decided by the majority. The voice of the person to be booted is not considered, which means that in the case of an even split, it is not the majority that dictates, but the side that first jumps to the boot button.

[Awha]

In regards to kicks, that is incorrect. Majority means more than 50% of a given population. In a group of 4, a majority thus means 3 people, as 2/4 is exactly 50% and thus neither majority nor minority. The vote however only needs 2 to pass.

Therefore, kicks may be but aren't necessarily decided by the majority. The voice of the person to be booted is not considered, which means that in the case of an even split, it is not the majority that dictates, but the side that first jumps to the boot button.

English is not my native tongue, but majority means the greater number right? Or are the other tiers of definitions superfluous. This one is an honest question.

So not counting the vote of the party that the vote was posed against. Between the three two out of the three are required for the vote to pass. So that means that the majority dictates if the kick is successful.

[Nora_of_Mira]

In regards to kicks, that is incorrect. Majority means more than 50% of a given population. In a group of 4, a majority thus means 3 people, as 2/4 is exactly 50% and thus neither majority nor minority. The vote however only needs 2 to pass.

Therefore, kicks may be but aren't necessarily decided by the majority. The voice of the person to be booted is not considered, which means that in the case of an even split, it is not the majority that dictates, but the side that first jumps to the boot button.

Yeah, in 4 person content, the only people voting for a kick are 3 people. So it's 2/3 required to kick, which still falls under "majority" because its a "majority of the voting participants".

[KaivaC]

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This is namely because you started responding to me having an issue with players doing vote kicks in situations that I feel are very petty in nature. DPS do not dictate the pace - the tank does. Of course, if all three players want a faster run, then the tank should probably step up their game, unless they stated at the beginning of the dungeon that they either wanted to go slow or that they aren't used to big pulls or wall to wall pulls at the beginning of a run. If the tank is being considerate to the healer who is either clearly struggling to keep pace or healer requests it because of lack of experience with big heals, and the two DPS initiate a vote-kick, then yes, that is trivial. It is not hard to come up with a reason for a vote kick at all. All the justification one needs is 'different play-style' and as long as there is no harassment in the chat box, there's hardly a thing that a GM can do if its not excessive vote-kicking in multiple instances in a short amount of time, and even then, I'm not entirely sure if a GM would take action without offending logs.

I dunno how what I stated just now and in at least one other post is selfish. One cannot force a tank to get comfortable - they have to do trial by fire and pressuring them into making large pulls during a run is not going to make them more comfortable tanking. One cannot force a healer to suddenly jump from being very uncomfortable with healing a massive pull to constantly doing it in an entire run after they've stated they are not at that point where they can do heals like that, especially if they're used to more measured pulls. If two players want to do a slower pull and the other two players want a quick run with massive pulls, there is no minority here.

[Zojha]

English is not my native tongue, but majority means the greater number right?

That much is correct, but the point is that the majority of the voting participants does not equal the majority of the group.

Say, for example, there is a group of four people. Two people in a party want small pulls and two people want big pulls. Therefore, neither side has a majority, it's exactly 2vs2. Now, there is a clash and someone initiates a kick. Which side wins? Since both parties have the exact number of votes, neither side should win in a democratic vote.

I can tell you who will win however: The more trigger happy one. Neither side has a majority, but by initiating a kick, you silence a portion of the opposition, therefore either side can win simply by being the first to initiate the vote-kick.

And that means that kicks are not necessarily decided by the majority of the group, because having a majority in the group is not necessary for a kick to pass. You can pass kicks without a majority so long as you are faster than the other side.

[Awha]

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As someone mentioned before wouldn't it fall under the majority of the voting participants. So I guess I should have just reworded it as such that the pace is dictated by the majority of the voting participants. Within that context a majority and minority can still be established. Also wouldn't half the party be considered majority because the player being voted against does not count. Making it two votes needed to pass leaving the one as the minority since the player being voted against does not count.

Snip . . .

You are right no one should force another player to do something they are not comfortable with. I will admit what I should have said was the pace is pace is dictated by the majority of the voting participants. Also doesn't that also go to show that one should not take the vote personal, if you want to take that it is RNG based and most the time based off who gets the vote off first at the point no reason to get upset just so happened the player lost the roll.

Overall I not understand why it has to be so complicated, if a vote does not go your way either make the choice to stay or leave. I mean sure it sucks when a group pushes a players that are clearly struggling but if the person struggling is not happy they have the option to leave. Like I said I have no logged into the game for a couple of weeks, but it is not like we can kick players at the start. If 15 min pass and say you are the struggling player ( not saying that you struggle ) you either start a vote to kick one of the players that is making your life hard, or leave. By no means should anyone force their play style on another. I mean would it be nice if people were more understanding sure, but is it necessary or reasonable to expect players to be understanding not really.

Normally when I tank I ask the group if they are okay with larger pulls if not I just say thanks and wish them all the best and eat the timer. Though sometimes I start off okay with a slower pace but grow impatient that is when I start a vote if it passes awesome, if not I have to make a choice adjust or leave. Normally I adjust, but if it bothers me enough I just leave. It is not hard to find a reason to kick someone, but it is also very easy to avoid getting kicked since truth be told many players are expecting perfect play. In the end I do agree with you that people should be more considerate towards others on both fronts.